How important is lineage in your MA training?

[IcemanSK]

I don't want to start a poll, per se. I'm just wondering if it matters to you (or is important to you) who your instructor (or instructor's instructor) is. That your instructor trained under a certain person (or that hey trained X champion in the past. Did they with train someone famous? (eg. They trained at the same school as Bill Wallace).

If it isimportant to you, tell us some stories of who you are "decendent" of.

[shogeri]

Not too important.

It runs similar to 'name dropping' or who has more rank, and so on.

However, I do not mind various professional references, or word of mouth references for that matter.

[orion82698]

Well, I have asked this question before, and I also felt that it was important. Read the post that I made. I got a lot of feed back.

http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=23360&highlight=lineage

I came to the conclusion that just because your master was Bruce Lee, doesn't mean you can instruct worth anything. Word of mouth, yes is great too... however, then you must worry about the person speaking of this person. I have heard people talk up instructors before. I looked into it, and the Dojo was all McDojo'ish. You must consider the source when going this route. The best way I feel now, is to do many things first.

1. Call the dojo. Are they open about discussing prices? Are they open about discussing if there is a contract or not? Do they talk a lot about certifications in this and being a master in that?

- If a place is respectable, they will discuss prices with you up front, along with contracts.

2. See the place for yourself. Get your own feeling about it. Don't listen to someone elses opinion. Is that person going to be there for you if you cannot defend yourself? So why would you trust that person with your training?

3. Take as many free classes as you possibly can. Most times, McDojo practices do not show themselves until down the road. Make sure all the students that are high ranks are not under the age of 10. If they are a Black belt, how long have they been with the school? How many of them are senior students?

Now, I'm sure you know most of this, I'm simply just rambling on now

[IcemanSK]

Thanks orion, I didn't pay attention to that thread before.

[elbows_and_knees]

In the grand scheme of things, no, it's not important. you can't piggyback off of their accomplishments, and theirs are not yours. his skill was not necessarily the skill that your teacher or any of their teachers had...

Now, from a sport aspect, I would consider who your coach is to be important. It doesn't matter, however, who your coach's coach was, for the same reasons mentioned above.

[orion82698]

Thanks orion, I didn't pay attention to that thread before.

No problem dude!

[kivikala]

I don't want to start a poll, per se. I'm just wondering if it matters to you (or is important to you) who your instructor (or instructor's instructor) is. That your instructor trained under a certain person (or that hey trained X champion in the past. Did they with train someone famous? (eg. They trained at the same school as Bill Wallace).

If it isimportant to you, tell us some stories of who you are "decendent" of.

For me the issue of lineage is important.

Now, I only speak for myself as my view doesn't matter a hill-o-beans to anyone else, and everyone should seek their own raison d'être.

For myself, style-lineage means more than "name dropping" or other superficial references. The lineage one attests to, reflects "transmission". What I mean by this is the correct and accurate transfer of a systems technical style and method of teachings. This includes everything from idealism, philosophy, long term goals, and all that soft, "people stuff" as well a technical nuances, such as ura and omote.

To further clarify a bit, it is training to a level where one is authorized to teach that system. It doesn't make the person "the know it all", but capable of carrying on and advancing as the original teacher saw fit. Taking a lesson here or there doesn't count.

Claiming lineage A, B, C is informative, as it should be. If one is pretentious about it, then perhaps it is no more than "name-dropping", or a misaligned sense of Budo.

So to me those with solid background and history supporting their teaching, they should be proud (within limits) to display their lineage. It tells me the history and source of their knowledge, it indicates how different or alike our training is. It could even show a close bond we have that we were not aware of.

So that said, I feel my own small and humble style-lineage is unimportant and of no value but to myself, so you get no stories from me today.

[Drgnslyer]

...IMHO it's useful to know the lineage behind your sensei...but that should not dictate how effective that individual is personally.

Ultimately I feel it breaks down to how receptive, and / or how innovative that person is...if they come from a "weak" lineage, it would likely pay to be a little innovative, and vice versa, if they were from a very "strong" lineage, it would pay off to be receptive.

A case by case thing through my eyes.

[G95champ]

They don't have to be world known but at the same time you need to show who you studied under IMO. I can't just say I have a black belt but I have to say this person taught me and that person taught him. Gives you a leg to stand on IMO.

[Sensei Rick]

My TKD instuctor is Dino Homsey. 1987 wka #1 ranked world contender and north american champion in PKA. He made a few movies and was a really good fighter untill he thought he could box. I always wondered how he kept from kicking a guy when he was in a boxing match. How did he remember not to use his feet. He was a really great fighter and a great friend. Now that I am much older an instructor myself, I realise that he was just OK as an instructor. My current instuctor holds no titles and has made no movies. He is the best teacher in the world tho. His fountain of knowledge hasn't dried up in 20 + years of training together. Dino and I are still friends and when we get together.... we SPAR!!!! He still kicks my booty. I think that lineage isn't that important. I fight a little like Dino but still have my own style, as do my students. I have a more rounded knowledge of MA than dino and I've continued to study and learned tons more from teaching. Yes he can still kick my booty, but i can teach circles around him. So, do ya wanna get your butt kicked or do you wanna learn Karate.