Kung Fu Grappling

[Steve_K]

Hello everyone;

I first want to say that I am putting this in the "General Martial Arts" section instead of the "Chinese Martial Arts" section because I would like resonses from both Kung Fu practitioners, grapplers and anyone else who can offer insight.

Here is a little back story before my question.

A couple of years ago I accompanied a friend to a Kung Fu school in a nearby town. The instructor there was talking about the superiority of Kung Fu, and that the style encompases all aspects of fighting, including ranged fighting, close in fighting, weapons and ground fighting.

I did not care for the instructor's attitude towards other martial arts, because he seemed to show a general disrespect to seemingly all other forms, and spoke of how after he and a friend or brother learned a little kung fu, he and his friend/brother would go to other martial arts schools and beat up on the instructors there, I certainly didn't believe him, and and I certainly lost my respect for him, not for Kung Fu, just the instructor.

What I am curious about is the ground fighting style taught in Kung Fu, if any. The instructor at this school stated that students of his style (not [/i]his style) of Kung Fu can/will enter all forms of competition, including grappling. I am questioning the reliability of the instructor due to his apparent low opinion and lack of respect towards other styles.

 

I cannot recall which form of Kung Fu it was, but for any of you knowledgeable in various forms of Kung Fu, could you tell me how accurate this person's statements were, and what styles teach it? And for those of you who enter in grappling competitions, could you please tell me if you have gone up against a Kung Fu based grappler, and how well they fought?

 

Thank you in advance.

[angus88]

It wouldn't really surprise me if a Kung Fu school started incorporating some grappling - since that's what a lot of people are into nowadays. For that matter they'd probably tell you that whether they were or not, just to sign up another student!

As for your concern about the arrogant instructor - that too is pretty much the norm from what I've seen. For me, when I check out other schools, pretty much everything they tell me goes in one ear and out the other - I just want to watch his students and see what they're doing. That's only thing that won't lie - if they impress you, it's probably an impressive school.

And I know this is a little off topic, but my personal favorite line when asking another school's head about sparring - "our moves are so deadly we can't free-style spar because we'd kill each other!"

[fallen_milkman]

Kung fu is too general a term. Do any styles of kung fu have grappling? I would imagine most do. If they don't, it's probably not worth your time. Some might have it, but just teach it at more advanced levels. That would mean fewer people learn it, since it takes a long freaking time and a lot of dedication to get to that level. I'll be studying for about 6 more years before I even reach black sash, not even considering ranks beyond there.

[shogeri]

Any kung fu that implements Chin Na, has grappling. Taijiquan implements Chin Na, however it is a standing form of grappling, and not ground fighting. SHUAI JIAO is another kung fu concerned with grappling. It does have wrestling, but I am not sure just how far they go with it.

[elbows_and_knees]

most kung fu style will NOT teach you ground grappling. Even the chin na you do learn is mostly standing, and stand up grappling does not directly translate to the ground, despite what people may tell you. Most of the "ground fighting" seen in kung fu is striking from the ground - trying to get up quickly, before a person is on you and a grappling situation begins. That said, there is one chinese style that I know of which is dedicated to ground grappling - fukien dog boxing.

When I trained in longfist, we *tried* to translate chin na to the ground and also incorporated things we'd seen bjj guys do. It worked for us - as in us against eachother - so we thought we were doing something good. However, later, my buddy and I ordered "the fighter's notebook" and started training the grappling techniques we learned. We started MURDERING the other guys in school when it came to grappling. Why? because what they were teaching really wasn't sound. later, we both left the school. We went back to thai boxing and also started bjj.

As for shuai chiao, there is a core group of awesome shuai chiao guys that I train with whenever I have the chance. It's great stuff - I love it. Even with SC though, there is no ground grappling. They assume that you will finish them with either the throw or a strike afterward - they don't go to the ground.

[fallen_milkman]

I think elbows_and_knees may be right on for most kung fu styles. What little ground fighting I have seen in my style involved very simple stuff compared to BJJ. Don't get me wrong, I think it would work against most styles and people. I just wouldn't try most of it with a BJJ expert. That is where keeping on your feet comes in.

[Steve_K]

Excellent replies guys, very insightful, I appreciate it.

Yeah when I was progressing through the ranks of tae kwon do, we would work on certain ground applications and strategies, but we would never go so far as to say that "we train in ground fighting". As fallen_milkman said, we would basically learn escapes and ways to get back to our feet.

[shogeri]

If you can find Mongolian Wrestling, then you have found one of the only ground fighting Chinese Martial Arts (it is more of a sport nowadays).

[busling]

My school teaches 'Grappling' - it is from the traditional Kung Fu - basically anti-grappling. Its aims are either move into mount then Ground n Pound, OR escape from the ground to a standing position and continue the fight from there.

Consequently we learn BJJ escapes and traditional kung fu Anti grappling techniques.

We have had a few people go into MMA tournaments and do well. This is partially because they also practiced BJJ in their own time.

[elbows_and_knees]

that's debateable. chin na is included but as for "anti grappling", I know many WC guys that will state otherwise. They will tell you that this is a recent advent - as in within the past 15 years. Kudos to you guys for training bjj though. Do you know Andrew Nerlich?