rotational or linear?

[Menjo]

KF dude,

I share quite the similar view on blocks in regards to MA in general.

As you had said, alot of blocks can be used for a offense of preperation of offense movements. Instead of arm locks and other movements(which is great if you know those techniques), now the difference between the two trainig methods or ideals is that I view it as my block shiting my opponents body to adjust my attack. Such as if someone was to punch towrds my face, I would use rising block, leaving thier lower or possibly upper body open for a short period of time, with that being open all sorts of opportunites arise. Its interesting to see what kind of training happens and the small, and sometimes large differences between the styles have.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Menjo

[KF Dude]

Menjo-

One of Hung-Ga's training methods is the iron bridge. Very common in most Southern Shaolin Kung Fu styles. Shoulder to finger tips are conditioned to get exceptionally hard & solid. Once a certain level is achieved blocks become strikes. Out on the street, your hands are for the most part down by your sides so a rising block is used over circular. With hands in that position 'wax on/wax off' blocks aren't fast enough for straight incoming strikes. Fighting happens too fast for blocking to used a static segmented like manner. Blocking combined with visual awareness, footwork and sensitivity, manuvers the body out of harms way but close enough for the arms to get in the way of whatever is incoming to establish contact with your attacker. This is part of what Hung-Ga calls controling the bridge.

I also find the minor & major diferrences between martial art styles fascinating. I could never imagine going into a combative situation without the specific knowledge I've learned. Yet there are thousands of people doing that everyday & feel exactly the same about their chosen art as I do mine. Once again fascinating.

[RichardHangHong]

I our style we use both linear and circular techniques as we are based on Shotokan and Goju together. This provides a nice balance and makes us a little more well-rounded instead of just one-method only.

[Ottman]

Well TKD, (at least in my dojang) doesn't really get into the linear/circular debate. We are taught our techniques and are expected to carry them out as taught without a word on the linear/circular aspects of them. To be honest I like this method of training as it doesn't convolute the mind with such trivial details. We are being taught both linear and circular techniques, but as we aren't thinking about the specific intricacies of what makes linear techniques linear, and circular ones circular, we can therefore focus on mastering which techniques work better for us, within different situations, and eventually we inherently know when to use a linear technique over a circular one.

Now I don't mean that understanding the concepts of linear and circular movement won't help you to develop your martial arts, but I don't think it is so important to differentiate between the two in attempt to make your martial arts more effective. If I got stuck thinking about whether to use a linear block or a circular one while a strike was coming at me, I'd just get hit. I think that trying to identify where to use each type of movement only puts a burden on your mind, when it should be empty and ready to react at the time of conflict.

I only heard about linear and circular movement as it applies to MAs after I started studying JKD (I had already gotten a BB in TKD at the time.) While I could immediately identify where either type of motion took place in my TKD, it didn't really help me to refine my technique or strategy, as I had been refining it all along, just without using the language 'linear' and 'circular' to define what I was doing.

Since learning about what is meant by the respective terms, I have tried on multiple occasions to incorporate it into my teaching, and I've found that only a few of my students can grasp the concepts fully enough to be of any help to them. The rest still learn techniques with both types of movement, but they never realize what is 'circular' and what is 'linear'. Even so, the dedicated students can execute their technique just as well as someone with a deep understanding of the details behind linear/circular motion. Perhaps I'm trying to introduce it too early, but if my students end up learning the concepts anyway, even if they don't have the words to explain it themselves, why overload their brains with so much information?

[KF Dude]

...it doesn't convolute the mind with such trivial details. We are being taught both linear and circular techniques, but as we aren't thinking about the specific intricacies of what makes linear techniques linear, and circular ones circular, we can therefore focus on mastering which techniques work better for us, within different situations, and eventually we inherently know when to use a linear technique over a circular one.

I don't think many martial schools teach that way either. The topic of the post put circular & linear movements under the microscope so to speak. Fighting happens too fast to be concerned with minutia such as this.

If I got stuck thinking about whether to use a linear block or a circular one while a strike was coming at me, I'd just get hit.

I would be thinking, did I just get hit by a linear or circular strike?

[RicksonFan]

I have to agree with the idea that if your head is away from your head or whatever it's blocking, in live combat, you're likely to get hit. Maybe not every time, but if I'm fighting you, most of the time. Circular vs. Linear is really one of those theoretical questions you find in traditional martial arts that doesn't have much place in real life. Oh, well I block punches circularly, wax on wax off. Well I like to do them linearly, painting the fence. Look to MMA where pucnhes are being thrown by those who know how to throw them- they are never blocked linearly or circularly. The're avoided or absorbed. Can ALL those professional fighters be wrong?

[Menjo]

I have to agree with the idea that if your head is away from your head or whatever it's blocking, in live combat, you're likely to get hit. Maybe not every time, but if I'm fighting you, most of the time. Circular vs. Linear is really one of those theoretical questions you find in traditional martial arts that doesn't have much place in real life. Oh, well I block punches circularly, wax on wax off. Well I like to do them linearly, painting the fence. Look to MMA where pucnhes are being thrown by those who know how to throw them- they are never blocked linearly or circularly. The're avoided or absorbed. Can ALL those professional fighters be wrong?

I somewhat agree to what you said. But in saying that, you left out something that would disagree with your argument.

I learned that traditional martial arts I know use both methods.

The way I'm traditional martial arts is to block only when I have to, or during a situation that I would feel it would be better for me to block, rather than evade, or just straight out take the hit. Mainly, for advanced students, they are taught how to evade when they gain enough knowledge.

Blocking in martial arts I find is more of a way to get your opponent in a situation that puts you in a advantage. Not to merely stop a technique.

When a martial artist simply stops a technique without having put themselves in a dominant position, probably made some error. But thats a choice, traditional martial arts avoid and absorb as well, more than standard training on tv shows of course.

And I think MMA block somewhat. They use a certain part of their body to minimize any serious damage, this could fall into a similar definition as a block, right?

Circular vs. Linear is really one of those theoretical questions you find in traditional martial arts that doesn't have much place in real life.

Martial art discussions and actual martial art training are two different things. If most traditional martial artists discuss, that doesn't nessaceraly mean that they would represent a martial art well, this goes for anyone... Unless its some master or something of that sort.

However I think I made some post about this earlier.

[HG]

I have to agree with the idea that if your head is away from your head or whatever it's blocking, in live combat, you're likely to get hit. Maybe not every time, but if I'm fighting you, most of the time. Circular vs. Linear is really one of those theoretical questions you find in traditional martial arts that doesn't have much place in real life. Oh, well I block punches circularly, wax on wax off. Well I like to do them linearly, painting the fence. Look to MMA where pucnhes are being thrown by those who know how to throw them- they are never blocked linearly or circularly. The're avoided or absorbed. Can ALL those professional fighters be wrong?

I somewhat agree to what you said. But in saying that, you left out something that would disagree with your argument.

I learned that traditional martial arts I know use both methods.

The way I'm traditional martial arts is to block only when I have to, or during a situation that I would feel it would be better for me to block, rather than evade, or just straight out take the hit. Mainly, for advanced students, they are taught how to evade when they gain enough knowledge.

Blocking in martial arts I find is more of a way to get your opponent in a situation that puts you in a advantage. Not to merely stop a technique.

When a martial artist simply stops a technique without having put themselves in a dominant position, probably made some error. But thats a choice, traditional martial arts avoid and absorb as well, more than standard training on tv shows of course.

And I think MMA block somewhat. They use a certain part of their body to minimize any serious damage, this could fall into a similar definition as a block, right?

Circular vs. Linear is really one of those theoretical questions you find in traditional martial arts that doesn't have much place in real life.

Martial art discussions and actual martial art training are two different things. If most traditional martial artists discuss, that doesn't nessaceraly mean that they would represent a martial art well, this goes for anyone... Unless its some master or something of that sort.

However I think I made some post about this earlier.

Once again the thread was focusing on specific blocking methods. There will always be debate on every aspect of martial technique. Coming from the Hung-Ga style I've come to depend upon a strong bridge & look to block whatever is heading my way. It works for me. Does this mean it's the only way, of course not. I'm just on the far end of of the 'blocking' spectrum. Rather than trying to fault one another let's just enjoy the different perspectives of martial art styles.

[Menjo]

I have to agree with the idea that if your head is away from your head or whatever it's blocking, in live combat, you're likely to get hit. Maybe not every time, but if I'm fighting you, most of the time. Circular vs. Linear is really one of those theoretical questions you find in traditional martial arts that doesn't have much place in real life. Oh, well I block punches circularly, wax on wax off. Well I like to do them linearly, painting the fence. Look to MMA where pucnhes are being thrown by those who know how to throw them- they are never blocked linearly or circularly. The're avoided or absorbed. Can ALL those professional fighters be wrong?

I somewhat agree to what you said. But in saying that, you left out something that would disagree with your argument.

I learned that traditional martial arts I know use both methods.

The way I'm traditional martial arts is to block only when I have to, or during a situation that I would feel it would be better for me to block, rather than evade, or just straight out take the hit. Mainly, for advanced students, they are taught how to evade when they gain enough knowledge.

Blocking in martial arts I find is more of a way to get your opponent in a situation that puts you in a advantage. Not to merely stop a technique.

When a martial artist simply stops a technique without having put themselves in a dominant position, probably made some error. But thats a choice, traditional martial arts avoid and absorb as well, more than standard training on tv shows of course.

And I think MMA block somewhat. They use a certain part of their body to minimize any serious damage, this could fall into a similar definition as a block, right?

Circular vs. Linear is really one of those theoretical questions you find in traditional martial arts that doesn't have much place in real life.

Martial art discussions and actual martial art training are two different things. If most traditional martial artists discuss, that doesn't nessaceraly mean that they would represent a martial art well, this goes for anyone... Unless its some master or something of that sort.

However I think I made some post about this earlier.

Once again the thread was focusing on specific blocking methods. There will always be debate on every aspect of martial technique. Coming from the Hung-Ga style I've come to depend upon a strong bridge & look to block whatever is heading my way. It works for me. Does this mean it's the only way, of course not. I'm just on the far end of of the 'blocking' spectrum. Rather than trying to fault one another let's just enjoy the different perspectives of martial art styles.

ok, didnt mean for anyone to take it in a negative way. But noone actually faulted anyone, good luck with your training.

[bushido_man96]

Commenting on the blocking/absorbing thought, I find that I block most kicks thrown at me, stopping them directly. With punches, I tend to try to deflect them more, if that makes sense. I suppose both can be used, depending on what's coming. The other night at class while sparring, I did deflect a kick as well, instead of blocking it, but I think that was a direct result of the distance between me and my partner.

(Wow, this thread has been around for a while! Maybe I'll go digging up some other old threads; see what I can find! )