The reason we train wrist grabs...

[Adonis]

I disagree with you,

he took him down with a double leg, controled from the ground and grounded and pounded the guy. He set him up using the wrist grab, despide popular belief wrist locks are diffcult to apply with a resiting opponet trying to knock you out. Especially another grappler who is used to subs.

Weather you believe its technique or not. both me and sub grappler pointed out what he was doing with his ground fighting. Also what techniques he used. So IT IS TECHNIQUE he used to win the fight.

May not be best of techniques or how other ground fighers would use, but it worked for that guy.

[ravenzoom]

Right, however I find this fight pathetic and quite frustrating. True, I wasn't there to witness what lead to the fight, but from the video it is clear that the guy who gets beat up had no intention of starting any physical confrontation. I have no problem with two guys who want to go at it, but when I see a person picking on someone who obviously doesn't want to fight I consider this to be a very cowardly act.

[Adonis]

You have a point there. actually what led up to the fight. was the guy started surfing when a surfing contest was going on so other guy swim in after him and told him to get out of the water.

Kid didn't listen so they were fighting in the water and then fighting agian on shore. Yeah I don't agree with how the fight went down. Yet it still bothers me that people say it was a brawl when it was technique used. thats just my point.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Well, I guess I'll take your word for it that there was a martial art technique used there. Problem is, I've seen the same "technique" used in countless junior and senior high school fights, and God knows how many bar fights over the years. Some guy grabs the others wrist to keep from getting punched, then dives for the legs because he's bigger or stronger then straddles his chest and pounds on him. I guess I didn't realize that was good technique...I always thought it was slop.

I stand corrected.

[SubGrappler]

If you think that grabbing someone's wrist is a good way to start an attack, then you'd better hope that all you're fighting are smaller, wimpier opponents that don't know how to fight like the poor schmuck in the video, because anyone that knows any half-decent defenses against wrist grabs would have left the grabber with a hyper-extended elbow or dislocated shoulder in two seconds.

The wrist grab was a setup, not an attack. No one would have had the time to apply any kind of wrist lock that would have made the difference. When escaping from basic holds, its the general assumption that the person holding you is actually trying to do so. That particular wrist grab was weak, and the guy who was grabbed could have simply pulled his wrist away but that is what the guy intended to happen with the wrist grab- distract him from the main attack.

Heck, even when the guy took him down, there is a BIG opportunity to guillotine choke his attacker that he let get away.

Guillotine Chokes are applicable when your opponent shoots in on your with a poor base. You'll notice that he had good posture when he shot in, which does a good job of negating the guillotine, not to mention that a guillotine wont work too well if your opponent gets that much penetration on his takedown attempt.

Well, I guess I'll take your word for it that there was a martial art technique used there. Problem is, I've seen the same "technique" used in countless junior and senior high school fights, and God knows how many bar fights over the years. Some guy grabs the others wrist to keep from getting punched, then dives for the legs because he's bigger or stronger then straddles his chest and pounds on him. I guess I didn't realize that was good technique...I always thought it was slop.

Now I understand what you're seeing.

There is all the difference in the world between a bum tackle, which you often see in a fight between inexperienced fighters, and a double leg takedown. Yes, the takedown was attempted from far away and could have been executed much better, but a sloppy double leg is 10 x better than the best tackle you could manage to throw.

If you compare the two techniques, often when someone attempts a tackle, they bend over at the waist, putting the lifting pressure on their backs and exposing their neck/head to attacks such as chokes, headlocks, and strikes. A double leg is executed by a level change which is done at the knees rather than the waist. The spine and neck are kept in alignment which puts the lifting pressure on the legs and body as a whole as opposed to your back (which is why you can see wrestlers picking up people who are in greater size). Not only this, but the takedown from a double leg is "finished" (i.e. the guy is dumped on his back) when you manage to get under him. A tackle attempts to lift and opponent from far out with outstretched arms.

Imagine someone seeing a sloppy haymaker punch and saying "hey, thats a karate punch!" imagine how many differences you could point out between a good punch and a poorly thrown one

[shogeri]

The more sensitive a person is to touch, the more they will be able to avoid these situations, or the better they will progess them.

Once a lock is employed something must be done with it.

From a grab or lock, one must:

Pull, push, or fulcrum.

Both the offense and the defense have those 3 basic options.

Not release, and then attempt another lock or grab.

This only serves to break the momentum.

If the blonde guy was just 10 to 15 percent better, or 1 percent luckier, the guy who grabbed him could have been killed.

In retrospective, I agree with Shorinryu S on this one.

Even if it wasn't an attack, (such as an aggressive lock), then by all means it was a poor setup.

Just my two cents...

[h2whoa]

http://www.comegetyousome.com/video/Surf%20fight%202.wmv

And everyone doubted the street applications of the wrist grab!

I saw no wrist grab there. Yes, the attacker grabbed the guys wrist, but there was no attempt to do anything with it in the way of a lock or submission move. He grabbed the guys wrist then let go of it as he dove at the other guys legs.

I guess I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

I agree!

[Adonis]

shorinryu sensei,

I seen others do it but not as good.

yeah he grabed the wrist the double leg was good how ever telegraphed it worked. He controled them from a grappling postion on top and hit.

It may not be something you would see in your kunsanku kata or Pinions or Hakutsuru kata, it is ground fighting technique though. I see the techniques in bars and school yard fights not as precise in the movement so it is sloopy. I didn't think it was sloppy as those who don't train, but I train on the ground so.....yeah.

I take it you don't train grappling do you?

The guy who faught as a jiu-Jitsu artist I believe under Relyson Gracie, (don't quote me on that I just know he trains under some one from Hawaii) just choose to groud n pound instead. I am just saying it is technique that is used. How ever people think of the moral or ethical side of him doing it to that guy is a diffrent disscussion. As for the technique I am just pointing it out. He controled the wrist pulled shot in. Acheived dominant postion maintained control of it and punished the guy on the ground with strikes.

[Adonis]

I wrote all that before subrappler wrote his. He does alot better job at writting and pretty much already said what I wanted to say.

I am just saying it is technique not sloppy brawling from people who know nothing as what seems to be suggested by other members.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I take it you don't train grappling do you?

Limited ground grappling, (admittedly not enough)...standup grappling, yes...quite a bit actually.