New to Martial Arts - could use some help

[Aodhan]

Hey all,

I've recently considered pursuing martial arts. However, I'm lost as to which ones I should consider.

(I'm a 16 year old male, about 5'11 if that info will make any difference...)

I guess I could provide what I'm looking for:

-Looking for a martial art more on the "practical" and "realistic" spectrum

-For self-defense

-Useful in real-life situations (ie - "street fighting"- prefer not to use this term because it seems to be very conflicting)

-I would like to hit and get hit, so as to add reality and understanding of how it is used (in a productive sense).

-Increase self-discipline

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Go to as many schools that offer 2 or more weeks free as you can. Try them all, and find what appeals to you the most. That's the best way to find an art that you will end up training in consistently.

As far as your requirements go, almost any art will be good for self defense and practical. Don't worry about what people say about ATA, WTF, ITF, and their tournament sparring. Tournament sparring is much different than street sparring, and most schools will instruct you in both.

As far as your criteria, kenpo, hwarang do, TKD, muay thai all seem like viable first options.

Aodhan

[orion82698]

Travel around your area. Take as many free lessons as you can. Look up info on the gym, and instructor if possible.

[gojupralgo]

3. Any claims of an American having higher than an 8th degree black belt. There are more 10th Dan Americans than in all of Japan and Okinawa.

There are also three times more Americans than Japanese/Okinawans, and plenty more interest in the lifetime 'study' of the martial arts in the U.S. than in Japan. But, otherwise i will agree... plenty more people in the U.S. falsely claiming expertise. You make a false claim in Japan/Okinawa, you'll be tested and disgraced. You make a false claim here, and everyone wants to buy your videos.

It's not anly false claim. It's the very idea that a 10thDan should be given at all.

Look up the criteria for being ranked above 8th Dan in Japan and Okinawa. National Governing Boards. Most aged over 70. Any American that thinks they are legitamately above 8th Dan is kidding themselves. No such thing. Just photoshop, and a real good HP printer.

Goshi Yamaguichi is an 8th Dan. He rejected higher rank, because he felt only his Father was qualified to give him higher rank, and that he isn't old enough (he's over 60). His older brother is 70 and a 9th Dan. Both inherited the lineage without question. There are others just like them. At the top of the lineage, yet don't just take a 10thDan, just because their teacher past away. That's not enough reason to get the rank, despite the many Americans that think it's OK

A 10th Dan, can't award above an 8th Dan rank legitimately in Asia. Look it up if you don't take my word for it.

[b3n]

3. Any claims of an American having higher than an 8th degree black belt. There are more 10th Dan Americans than in all of Japan and Okinawa.

There are also three times more Americans than Japanese/Okinawans, and plenty more interest in the lifetime 'study' of the martial arts in the U.S. than in Japan. But, otherwise i will agree... plenty more people in the U.S. falsely claiming expertise. You make a false claim in Japan/Okinawa, you'll be tested and disgraced. You make a false claim here, and everyone wants to buy your videos.

It's not anly false claim. It's the very idea that a 10thDan should be given at all.

Look up the criteria for being ranked above 8th Dan in Japan and Okinawa. National Governing Boards. Most aged over 70. Any American that thinks they are legitamately above 8th Dan is kidding themselves. No such thing. Just photoshop, and a real good HP printer.

Goshi Yamaguichi is an 8th Dan. He rejected higher rank, because he felt only his Father was qualified to give him higher rank, and that he isn't old enough (he's over 60). His older brother is 70 and a 9th Dan. Both inherited the lineage without question. There are others just like them. At the top of the lineage, yet don't just take a 10thDan, just because their teacher past away. That's not enough reason to get the rank, despite the many Americans that think it's OK

A 10th Dan, can't award above an 8th Dan rank legitimately in Asia. Look it up if you don't take my word for it.

I totally agree.

[White Warlock]

Look it up if you don't take my word for it.

Umm, i don't have to look it up. Your statement is far too encompassing. It is not the whole of Asia, nor is it even a majority of it. As to 'why' such is the case, it is due to the below stated:

• The basis for a 10th dan is that you made an art
   
  The basis for a 9th dan is that you are the first son, or chosen successor, of the art
   
  8th dan is the highest rank one can obtain without being the progenitor or progenitor's son / immediate successor

These are the rules for many Japanese systems and organizations (Kodokan, etc), but it is not a universal rule, is clearly not a rule accepted by most of the TKD federations, and has been misperceived by many American organizations.

Many Americans have come to the conclusion all they need to do, in order to obtain a 10th dan, is to create their own style and patent it. It is not, but the structure presented by the Japanese was perceived as such... and as such, things were twisted in the translation.

edit: Oh, and some of the founders of some very popular Japanese/Okinawan arts were 'very young' when they founded said arts. You did not include them in your examples (Tatsuo Shimabuku - founded isshin-ryu at age 46, Shigeru Egami - founded shotokai at age 44, Chojun Miyagi - founded goju-ryu at age 42, Mas Oyama - founded kyokushinkai at age 28, Jigoro Kano - founded judo at age 22, etc).

[gojupralgo]

Just to clarify.

I wouldn't know anything about the rules regarding TKD. I was only intending to refer to Japanese or Okinawan Karate. I wouldn't know about TKD or other arts that I am not trained with or affiliated with. I was referring to organizations such as the Kodakan, and the JKA. These governing bodies really don't exist in the U.S.

You are correct about the age thing. Gogen Yamaguchi was young as well. But he did not take the rank for himself. It was an earned rank. Mas Oyama was given 9th Dan in 1974 at age 51. 10th Dan shortly after. He may have been young when developing his system. But, he did not assume the rank like others have. It was earned. An example of how long he was an 8TH DAN, and could not get higher until 1974.

Referring to Master Shimabuku. There are a whole host of Americans that claim to have been given a 10th Dan from him. We have a guy here in Sierra Vista, AZ (50 yrs old) that makes claims that he is a 10th Dan under Shimabuku. We have a guy in Brooklyn, NY that made his own style at 21 yrs old. Another 10th Dan.

Peter Urban (GOJU) proclaimed himself a 10th Dan, after Yamaguchi rejected his request for higher rank. Later on in years, he awarded many 10th Dans to his students. I know about this because my Dad was one of his students at Chinatown DOJO in the 60's (but didn't get 10th Dan LOL). Dad broke away and joined the GOJUKAI after the big GOJU breakup in the 60s. The list goes on and on.

This is just a bit out of hand.

Regarding traditional Karate, I stick by statement to be wary of anyone claiming such high ranks. Above 8th Dan? Somethings a little fishy.

Edited November 18, 2005 by gojupralgo

[gojupralgo]

Some good advice. Here some from me.

Avoid the following:

1. Storefront Windows filled with trophies. If you want the real deal for real life situations, avoid schools that teach you to fight with points.

2. More colors of belts than you can count on one hand. Traditional Karate only has White Green, Brown, and Black Belt. When Karate came over from Asia, money got in the way.

3. Any claims of an American having higher than an 8th degree black belt. There are more 10th Dan Americans than in all of Japan and Okinawa.

I agree with Number 1, but not really Number 2. Just because a style has 12 belt ranks before Black does not make it inherently bad, though it is often the case. And #3, there are plenty of good American martial artists. Ed Parker (Hawaiian, technically American, right?), current Kenpo Grandmaster Larry Tatum. This last statement is just ridiculous. So people that are American shouldn't be promoted past 8th?

I don't personally know Larry Tatum, so I'll ask you. Who gave him the rank of 10th Dan? Who gave it to Ed Parker? If it was given legitemately in Japan or Okinawa, then it can happen. It would be a rarity.

As far as the belts are concerned, it's all about the money. Like I said, I don't know Larry Tatum, but his website looks as commercialized as it can get. And that's what ruined Martial Arts in the US.

[glockmeister]

If you wnat something somewhat traditional, yet very self defense oriented, you may want to consider Hapkido.

There are many more modern styles as well..MT, Krav Maga, Haganah, JKD..

Basically, you have to shop around and find out what fits YOU. What works for one person may not work for another, which is one reason why there are so many different schools teaching so many different styles.