Bad Judges

[wingchunner]

...I was judging at a tournament when I was in my younger twenties. I was judging over 35 black belt division. At the tournament that I was judging at, black belts were rated a score from 7 to 9 while lower ranks were rated from 6 - 8.

The lower rank division was right before the sr. adult black belt division.

During that time, an African American black belt did a great job on a very traditional form. However, I had rated him a 7.6 because my mind was still in the range of the lower ranks.

He came up to me after the division was over and asked me why I had scored him so low. I told him I thought he did well except for a few minor things during his performance, but that over all he did well. He just walked away frustrated. I didn't realize until I was driving home after the tournament what I had done. I felt terrible.

The gentleman was from Chicago. So, if by chance you (the African-American Gentleman Sr. Blackbelt) read this post. My deepest apologies. My hope is that you didn't think I scored you low because I am biased against African-Americans (which I am not and make a consciencious effort not to be), I score you low because I made a mistake. You deserved an 8.6 instead and should have placed much higher. Again, my apologies.

Martin Yoder

[TangSooGuy]

I don't mean to say that would ever intentionally score my students lower than another student.

I just meant that since I know the idiosyncracies and abilities of my student, I am more likely to give them a lower score than another judge who doesn't know them...because I know when they are making a mistake, that another judge might not see. If they do a better form than everyone else, I'll score them higher than everyone else.

I won't go easy on them because they are my student though, and I will probably scrutinize them more bexause I know how I expect them to be doing the form. I look for the same things in students from other schools, but not knowing them as well as I know my own students, I'm not going to see them in quite the same way.

It may not be easy to explain, but it is a real factor. I think it applies to most instructors whether they admit it or not. I tend to be harder on my own students in the same way that most parents are harder on their own children than on other people's children.

As for scoring - I tend to score the first competitor however I feel they truly did. I use that as a kind of base score, and score every other competitor accordingly, based on how they did in comparison to the first. We have a set scale that basically defines how many tenths of a point to knock off for making minor mistakes, or having to start over, but mostly it is subjective off that base score. I believe this is the only fair method of scoring to ensure that the first person gets an equal chance to win.

All too often I see the example of bad judging where the scores get consistently higher over the duration of the division, even if quality did not increase. This basically creates a jinx on the first competitor, which isn't quite fair. Granted, it is still a disadvantage to go first, in that the competitors who go later have the opportunity to see what others have done, and "turn it up" accordingly, but I still think the first competitor deserves a fair shot.

As for how I score...everything goes into the final score...focus, spirit, stance, rhythm, technical proficiency, balance, whether it looks like the competitor really understands what they are doing, whether the technique has sufficient power is is just done to "look pretty", whether they are thinking too much about what comes next....each factor may raise or lower the score from the base score I have in my mind. Usually I start with a base score in my mind of 7.0 or 8.0 as "average" and work my way up or down from there. The first person might get higher or lower than that base depending on whether they were above or below average.

I've personally never scored anyone higher than a 9.5, and in some tournaments, the scoring is capped at 9.0...I think it's just one of those "there is no such thing as perfect" things...

We usually have 5 judges...high and low scores get dropped. If there is a tie, they are added back in, If there is still atie, they do the form again.

At smaller tournaments, we only have 3 juges, and all scores count.

Back on topic regarding "bad" judging...I also got accused of being racist once by a mother...neglecting the fact that her daughter made several mistakes in her forms, and just wasn't that good of a fighter. Even worse, completely neglecting the fact that although I am white, neither of the girls that won first place in the divisions he daughter competed in were white...one was of African American descent, and the other of Asian American descent....so sometimes "bad" judging really is just perceived, without considering all the factors.

Edited November 7, 2005 by TangSooGuy

[Aodhan]

I understand what you mean, Tangsoo. When I judge my students, I have to be really careful to just judge on what I see and not what they do in class.

I haven't had anyone accuse me of racism yet, although I've had a couple accusations of favoritism. My favorite was "You're just biased towards him because he's a redhead!!"

Aodhan

[coralreefer_1]

Yeah, i have a story to tell about a bad call. The last tournament I was in before I came to Korea. It was a WTF taekwondo tournament, though it was a "family' tournament. At these kinds of tournaments, most of the time the judges are students of the host dojang. At this tournament, even at the BB level, we were not supposed to make head contact, just stop the kick short.

Anyway..i sparred this guy. He trained at the school that was hosting the tournament, but had left for college that year. 2 of the 3 judges at that table were from his dojang. Anyway, during the sparring match, I tapped his head twice when I wasnt supposed to..so i lost 2 points. I felt like even with the 2 poins lost, i still won the match. But he was awarded first place, even though afterward his own brother, and 2 people from the " most famous in NC dojang" came to me and told me i beat him. But I wasnt so bothered by that.

But what really bothered me was the poomse competition. I was 1st Dan, he was second. So I did Koreyo, and he did Tae Baek. But he screwed up the form, and added moves that werent even in the form, not just 1, but 3 or 4 extra movements. But even though I did koreyo well, and he added movements, he still one first for poomse too. Even if my form were crappy, I did it correctly, so that alone should have gotten me first, but the 2 judges from his school dont even KNOW taebaek poomse, so they had no clue that he added movements and it wasnt correct!! It just seems strange to me to have students judging other students if they arent even of equal rank as the competitors.

Theres my bad call story...

[karatekid1975]

That sucks. Even though I am allowed to judge, I can't judge people (adults) above my rank. So, I don't know why other schools do it. I might know Koryo (but not well), I can't judge them. It's not my form.

It sounds like "favorites" with the other dojang. Sorry dude. I've been there, too

[MasterH]

Man, that sucks! Can you call that bad judges, or a bad system in general? Do these judges get certified in any way?

-Adam