How does one disagree with upper rank?

[IcemanSK]

This question has to do with how one deals with authority in the martial arts. In the rest of my life (outside the training hall) I've acheived a level of personal confidence from my education & experiences to be able to stand up to authority (in my career & in life) when I disagree. I've met my share of folks who take pleasure in lording their positions over people & making others feel as if they are worthless. I've had no trouble not only sharing my opnions with them, but (occasionally) telling them exactly what I thought of the way they treated me or others.

In the MA world, it is very different. Because "respect" is the "rule" toward seniors, I've always struggled with where line of being able to "respectfully disagree" out loud is. (Part of this for me is because my "growth" in MA was "stunted at about 19 years old. Whereas I grew into my adult profession.) I've run across too many folks in MA that enjoy the "power" that the belt around their waist brings them & they lord it over others.

From big things like how a technique is done. To little things like patches on a uniform. How does one disagree with a senior?

[Eric_]

"I was told . . . " or, "Sensei said . . ." usually help. You presumably learned what you know from the instructor, so if they tell you something contradictory to what you have learned, you should state your argument; you're probably right. If they say it's A, thell them that the instructor told you it was B, and check with your sensei to see which is the correct method. When you do, make sure the other student hears too, so that they can correct themselves, and not risk teaching others improperly. Another safe aproach is to suggetst that they might be confusing one technique with another (since they're an upper belt, they know so many more, after all ).

[karatekid1975]

I disagree with an "upper rank" all the time (my boyfriend), and I usually win hehehehehehe.

Seriously, though. When it comes to one steps or forms, if they show me the wrong way, and I KNOW it's wrong, I just play "stupid." I will say, "Really? Maybe we were shown two different ways. Let's see what Master K says." Then I'll call him over and ask for "help" Sometimes doing that, I find that BOTH parties were performing it wrong. But most of the time it's because they practiced it wrong.

Or I will ask my instructor later to be sure if this person is wrong or right (I don't mention their name though). Because my instructor will usually "fix" this problem in the next class by showing the correct way to do the technique to the class as a whole, not just this person.

It hasn't happened lately, though. My instructor is usually good about "catching" them performing the wrong technique, anyways, and he does the correcting.

[Belasko]

both replies are good so far in relation to forms. For these and most other discrepencies that you may come across I find that it's not usually what you are questioning, it's how you present it. Telling someone "You're wrong, I think you're being stupid," is a good way to tick off the upper ranks and get a bad rep. Be respectful and honest and usually it works out just fine.

[h2whoa]

Very respectfully!! And diplomatically

[shogeri]

Boot to da head!....HA HA!

Not really.

If you know that a senior student is not doing something correctly, it wouln't hurt to wait and get a sensei to watch both of you perform the given technique.

Or you could always, say "How do this look?", or "Is this correct?"

The other fine folks on here replied with good answers as well.

[SubGrappler]

Far too many people get an over inflated ego when they start to climb the ranks- this does not save them from criticism. If the dispute is over a particular technique either you're doing the tech right, your instructor's doing it wrong, you're wrong, your instructor is right, or you're both right or both wrong.

Debate with him and say "I've found that this works best." If he cant refute it with anything but "do it like this because I said" then your technique is applicable and you higher rank needs to learn some humility or drop down a few ranks until he learns how to teach.

[MasterH]

Boot to the head..................I love that!

I would say respectfully and in private. You need to remember who is the higher rank, who is within earshot, and what you're dissagreeing over. I've seen people tossed out on their tails because they made the Chief Instructor look like a dolt.

[Bleeding Lion]

if something feels wrong to me, i will disagree regardless of the rank.

there was this shodan at my dojo leading practice when sensei was not around, we had some new students, and he was telling them how goju ryu is ranked as #2 deadliest art in the world after "shaolin". I respectfully asked his source and he gave me the "internet" answer, then I told him and especially the new student i didnt believe in a rank of arts, otherwise everybody would be studying only one art.

[kivikala]

...From big things like how a technique is done. To little things like patches on a uniform. How does one disagree with a senior?

I think in all situations being polite and mannerly wins all the time. It may not win the discussion, but it's the right thing to do. Looking at the question I'd have to ask, why is anyone discussing such matters with anyone but the sensei?

As I see it, the junior student is always treated as wrong even if they are right. I believe this to be true in much of the real world as well as in the dojo. So to disagree is for the most part, unfortunately, futile.