Does your Muay Thai gym retain traditions?

[elbows_and_knees]

sure it is, but a sign of respect is not one of religion... that would have nothing to do with why a person would or wouldn't bow.

[ElbowTKO]

then what causes Western Muay Thai boxers to not practice bowing as oppose to all the karate and aikido ones that do?

[White Warlock]

then what causes Western Muay Thai boxers to not practice bowing as oppose to all the karate and aikido ones that do?

Choice

[elbows_and_knees]

Bingo. As I stated earlier, it's not necessary for fighting. Consequently, most make the choice to drop the tradition. However, FWIW, every thai gym I have been to has bowed. Not all of them did the other stuff though. At my original school, we learned the wai kru and ram muay as well as the traditional techniques from previous muay.

[Tanren]

then what causes Western Muay Thai boxers to not practice bowing as oppose to all the karate and aikido ones that do?

In Thailand people do not bow they do the wai http://www.trv.net/trv98/information/wai.htm . IMHO if you don't have a connection to the Thai culture besides Muay Thai you don't speak Thai and never lived there for some time you shouldn't try to imitate there behavior because it is bound to become a pure mockery of Thai culture.

Someone said they wai before and after every drill. No Thai would do that, it doesn't make sense. Would you shake hands before and after every drill?

Also calling technique's with there Thai names is a very bad thing if you don't really speak the Thai language you will probably end up saying a completely different word.

Mocking another culture is NOT respectful.

all depends on who you want to become in view of a martial artist,some people( mostly beginners) just ditch traditions because they think its useless in fighting. Which i can understand, but taking away that maybe taking away the art in martial art......

The art in martial art is the art of fighting not the art of imitating other cultures or religions.

[elbows_and_knees]

I COMPLETELY agree with that post. I will address one point you made though - it's my group that will wai before and after each drill. that is not meant to be derived from thai culture. That is merely our way of instilling that common respect amongst eachother. You are acknowledging him for working with you. We have done this in EVERY style I've ever trained in.

[mrbigmuscles]

White Warlock I disagree with you. Martial arts cannot be completely divorced from the culture they are steeped in. Consider foreign language courses, dare I call them lingual arts? We don't pretend that Spaniards don't have a culture when we learn their language in HS or college. We study it and may even attempt to duplicate small parts of it in the classroom to provide a better understanding of what we are learning. For example we might cook some Spanish food or listen to their music or learn about some of their artwork. Are these distractions from learning the language? Should we pretend that language, fighting arts, and other products of a culture don't have anything to do with that culture?

To do so is silly, frankly. The thai do the ram muay and wai kru when they practice muay thai, it is part of the art. They don't do it when they sit down to watch tv or when they step into a restaraunt, they do it when they step into the ring to practice their martial art.

To say that traditions distract from the fighting is silly as well. You might not realize it but your own traditions are built into your training as well as your life unless you live in a cultural void. Since cultures steal ideas and practices from each other all the time I see no problem with us bowing to each other or calling a technique by its native name or adopting any practice we feel makes learning a martial art more fulfilling. If all I wanted to do was learn to hurt people I'd buy a .22 and learn to use it.

[powerof0ne]

muay thai is NOT a traditional style. It is a modern sportive style created in the 1920's. The tradition you do see in muay thai came not from muay thai, but from previous muay arts.

That said, there are schools outside of thailand today who teach these things. The school I currently teach/train at does not, however, my previous school taught me the wai kru, ram muay and various other things. About the only tradition we use at my current school is to wai before and after class, and to our partner before and after drills.

IMO, a lot of westerners have this fascination with the culture of the east and how it relates to the arts. It's not at all necessary to the learning process and in some instances, can hinder it...

You do know this isn't accurate, right? Unless you're calling krabri krabrong and lerdit muay krabrong and muay lerdit...

Muay Chaya and similar arts did not come before krabri krabrong, enough said.

[powerof0ne]

Most of my Muay Thai training is under the MTIA and we tend to bow and are taught to do at least the wai kru if not the ram muay if we're going into the ring.

The bowing isn't as strict as it is in Karate but it is usually done when entering the gym, leaving, and at the end of the class. Saying "sawadee krap/kaa" when bowing.

Doing the Wai Kru after a drill..never seen that in any gym I ever trained in, that would be interesting

A lot of gyms claim to teach Muay Thai(in my area) but don't, they're teaching more of a style of kickboxing with something similar to a muay thai roundhouse/dtae and maybe even a tiip/front push kick but with lots of boxing and hardly any knees...and probably hardly, if any elbows actually done in sparring or in the ring. One such gym which I give praise to claims to teach "Eurasian Kickboxing" which is fine by me.

When I first started Muay Thai here in Tacoma a certain gym tried to impress upon people that they taught Muay Thai but all of their fighters but one always fought with shin pads on, never with knees allowed, and certainly not with elbows. Another gym not too far away teaches "muay thai" but the instructor from what I know only has a karate and kenpo background and the only Muay Thai "instruction" he has had is from a former person I used to train with(that isn't instructor certified).

Then you have people certified in JKD under Chai Sirisute that can't tell me what camp they're under. Now do n't get me wrong I have nothing but respect for Sirisute's skills but I have personally talked to two certified instructors under his organization that didn't know what I meant from what camp they're under(I'm always curious about martial art history) and then they got offended and questioned my credentials and told me my former instructor isn't even in the USA anymore which he is and has been for at leat the last 10 years.

Anyhoo to make a long story short if you're training at a Muay Thai gym that doesn't keep the traditions of wai kru/ram muay/no bowing/no thai terminology/no prajiat/mongkol wearing in the ring then it's probably not really Muay Thai but more of a "kickboxing" style with some Muay Thai influence.

You guys that train in gyms without any of this that want to try to act like you train in Muay Thai and stroke eachother's egos go ahead but that's not what it is..and I'm not saying that it isn't less or more effective then Muay Thai but it isn't Muay Thai. Peter Aerts doesn't claim to be a Muay Thai stylist but many people call him Muay Thai.

[elbows_and_knees]

muay thai is NOT a traditional style. It is a modern sportive style created in the 1920's. The tradition you do see in muay thai came not from muay thai, but from previous muay arts.

That said, there are schools outside of thailand today who teach these things. The school I currently teach/train at does not, however, my previous school taught me the wai kru, ram muay and various other things. About the only tradition we use at my current school is to wai before and after class, and to our partner before and after drills.

IMO, a lot of westerners have this fascination with the culture of the east and how it relates to the arts. It's not at all necessary to the learning process and in some instances, can hinder it...

You do know this isn't accurate, right? Unless you're calling krabri krabrong and lerdit muay krabrong and muay lerdit...

Muay Chaya and similar arts did not come before krabri krabrong, enough said.

it wasn't really relevant. my point here was that muay thai is a new sport, not an older traditional style; it's derived from it's predecessors. however, to be technical, muay thai DID get it from muay chaiya. muay chaiya got it from styles that predated it.