Karate Vs Kung Fu/TKD/Karate

[juey palancu]

Hi,

I am nidan in traditional shotokan and for severla years I have engaged in full contact tournaments in various states and the only people that ever gave me trouble were other traditional shotokan practicioners and some traditional goju-ryu and jujitsu ones. Kyokushinkai were very strong and had good spirit but had poor balance so my dachi barai was my main technique agaisnt them and they spent a lot of time on the floor! Actually goju ryu karatekas were as strong as kyokushinkai but with better, more refined technique. MMA-fighters just did not have good striking technique and a low, solid gedan barai is the best takedown defense I have learned.

I dont go to a commercial dojo, but rather have learned form my sensei as a lifelong apprentice and friend. We train very hard. Any traditional art is good if you take the time to learn the techniques well, even if it is only a few techniques.

I wont to go open tournaments anymore becasue my sensei asked me to stop it, and I feel more comfortable than ever with my traditional shotokan after testing it out there.

yours in budo,

Gero

[Goju_boi]

y did your sensei ask u to stop going to open tournaments?

[juey palancu]

Well, he was proud of how well I did 'out there', but he noticed my technique was geting sloppy and I was getting cocky since i did so well against other styles...A few kumite rounds wiht my sensei and sempai definitely erased any cockyness that might have accumulated though...i'm not in their league yet!

If I really want to go to open tournaments again he'll say ok, it was just he expressing a preference...

anyway, stick to traditional arts, you'll be better in the end!

osu!

gero

[elbows_and_knees]

Well, he was proud of how well I did 'out there', but he noticed my technique was geting sloppy and I was getting cocky since i did so well against other styles...A few kumite rounds wiht my sensei and sempai definitely erased any cockyness that might have accumulated though...i'm not in their league yet!

If I really want to go to open tournaments again he'll say ok, it was just he expressing a preference...

anyway, stick to traditional arts, you'll be better in the end!

osu!

gero

if a gedan barai was a good takedown defense, I would argue that the grapplers at that tourney were horrible. Most grapplers stick to grappling tournies be it judo or bjj. Some cross train and enter MMA. You will not find them at karate tournies. I've learned more useful stuff from my bjj, judo and thai boxing training than I ever did with most of my traditional stuff.

[juey palancu]

Maybe those grapplers were pretty bad, they didn't take a good punch, that I know...

Seriously now, I took judo for years before, and it is a GREAT art. A traditional art, by the way. Gigoro Cano (Judo's forefather) and Gichin Funakoshi (Shotokan's) were good friends and respected each other's art inmensely. Shotokan, at the advanced levels has many elements such as throws and clinches, that are very similar to judo. For example, tekki shodan's sequence of wave-kicks can be looked upon as blocks or as sweeps much like a ouchigeri judo throw. The kata Kanku-dai has a throw in it (towards the end) which has applications like judo's kataguruma (bodyslam).

In general, traditional arts come form the same place and want to arrive at the same place...

osu!

Gero

[elbows_and_knees]

I see what you're saying, but technically, judo is not traditional. It was created after the period where 'combat' were considered useless. Judo, while very combat effective is not a classical style, and is thus not traditional. Technically, shotokan isn't either, AFAIK. But, these days, we tend to group traditional / non-traditional styles by training methods, which would classify shotokan as traditional.

I've heard that funakoshi was pretty good with throws. I'm guessing that back then they trained throws more in the way a judoka does. kata guruma (shoulder wheel) if one of my faves.

[juey palancu]

I see your point with traditional with both Judo and Shotokan, but I doubt Gigoro Cano was thinking about Olympics when he developed judo. When I say traditional I mean keeping faithful to traditional principles of chi and body mechanics, as well as development of serenity, strong spirit, etiquette, etc. I think arts lose too many of the 'little things' when they dispense with the 'traditional' part.

Yes, Funakoshi was good with throws and avoiding takedowns from the clinch. It's hidden all over the kata and some dojo's (like mine) explore those applications a lot). Many Shotokan dojos (the more 'traditional' ones) practice the throw and clinch applications of Funakoshi katas a lot.

Yes, I love kata guruma too and I have used in jiyu kumite, with excellent results!

best,

Carlos

[CTTKDKing]

In this tournament that I may be fighting in somtime in Feb. I heard that its going to be mixed. I take Goju-ryu karate... Do you think it would be good against the others? etc.

Discuss please

I, like some of the others have said, only can give you a TKD perspective. We have a lady whos nephew visits from Florida every year, and who studies Goju-ryu. He came an observed some classes at my TKD dojang. He came and watched a sparring class and asked if he could participate. We matched him against some of our best, and he did very well. He didn't win every match, but he did well. (he was a red belt by the way)

[angus88]

If you're fast and can make contact that looks effective but don't actually make someone's face red, you'll do fine in a tournament! Seriously though, TKD usually has an advantage in tournaments because they're usually TKD tournaments - not to sound old fashioned, but the kata judging at these things are usually a joke. But that's not what you asked.

Fighting guys in tournaments is a mixed bag. You have some schools that only emphasize fighting and others that only emphasize kata, and a rare few that emphasize both. On top of those variables, schools that fight will have different backgrounds with their fighters. Some of these guys will be naturally good, some won't. No one is a machine and no one is an absolute replicant of their art. Some guys that take Goju are naturally good at head kicks, which is typically considered a TKD thing. Some guys are really good at punches, even though they take TKD. Blah blah blah.

So after taking the long way around it, it depends on what kind of fighter you are as to how you do. Good luck and watch everybody - no matter what their style is.