Disgusted....New Rant

[Ego Assassin]

Theories and opinions and yet I have to agree with subgrappler. How many arguing have the real experience to know what works and what you'll run into. MMA fighters would breeze through 99.9% of the population.

People want to argue about this style thi and this sport that but are you a critic or are you out there learning about yourself and what you can do with and for your art. Stop living through other peoples experiences and find out for yourself.

[KempoTiger]

I can handle that approach- the way I read your first argument it sounded that you were arguing that MMA is only a sport and that "my japanese master" would handle these guys.

ugh...nah thats not what I would be saying at all.

And for the record my (supposed "Japanese Master" ) Sensei is an ex-marine, and his Sensei is ex-Navy and was a NYC cop. Nothing really too what most would call traditional, soft, or flowery in the means they teach and execute techniques.

[KempoTiger]

Theories and opinions and yet I have to agree with subgrappler. How many arguing have the real experience to know what works and what you'll run into. MMA fighters would breeze through 99.9% of the population.

People want to argue about this style thi and this sport that but are you a critic or are you out there learning about yourself and what you can do with and for your art. Stop living through other peoples experiences and find out for yourself.

I've been in a few fights. Nothing I'd call overly life threatening, but I've had my share of scuffles. I'd say honestly that you teach someone to put their hands into a proper guard, and throw a good right jab and they'll breeze through a good 70% of the population.

The thing is, is that if you train soley for sport purposes, you are instilling countless bad habits into your muscle memory and overall ability.

Now I will concede, and I'm sure Subgrappler, and other full contact fighters will attest to the fact that the benefits of training for the ring far outweigh the hindrances. But nonetheless, the flaws are still there, and can be easily remedied by training in a street oriented MMA school.

As I've been trying to state, I have nothing against MMA or full contact styles like Muay Thai, and BJJ. My general gripe is with those uneducated about martial arts, and more importantly the science behind physical combat. The ones that have the gall to actually go out of their way to mock those that don't train for the ring as "wusses" or delusional for not believing that trying to make someone tap out for 5-10 minutes on the floor is the best fight strategy in the street.

As the initial title says....twas just a rant

[SubGrappler]

I've been in a few fights. Nothing I'd call overly life threatening, but I've had my share of scuffles. I'd say honestly that you teach someone to put their hands into a proper guard, and throw a good right jab and they'll breeze through a good 70% of the population.

Agreed

The thing is, is that if you train soley for sport purposes, you are instilling countless bad habits into your muscle memory and overall ability..

I dont agree that it creates bad habits, and on top of that, they're not going to fight anyone outside the ring who would be even remotely good enough to take advantage of their bad habits if they developed them. These guys train to fight like its a full time job.

As I've been trying to state, I have nothing against MMA or full contact styles like Muay Thai, and BJJ. My general gripe is with those uneducated about martial arts, and more importantly the science behind physical combat. The ones that have the gall to actually go out of their way to mock those that don't train for the ring as "wusses" or delusional for not believing that trying to make someone tap out for 5-10 minutes on the floor is the best fight strategy in the street.

The ring isnt for everyone, and even most people who do BJJ never compete, even though thats what's made the art popular. You have a misconception about grappling though. People say its not practical to roll around on the ground for 10 minutes looking for a sub- well its just as unpractical to stand up and slug it out for 10 minutes looking for a knockout. I've seen submissions end a fight far quicker than I have KO's (not that I havent seen quick KO's).

The matches get drawn out because they're fighting against an opponent who is also trained in grappling- they know what each other are trying to get and how to escape that situation. Just as your good right jab is going to defeat 70% of the population, so will a decent armbar. A good example is Frank Mir vs Tank Abbott. Tank isnt known for his submissions or submission defense, because he doesnt like them at all. In his fight vs Mir though, it only took 46 seconds to tap him out, which seems rather practical to me.

[shogeri]

I defend MA. The UFC represents itself. Not all fighters in the world.

It does show that fighting can be brutal, and real, even with rules.

--------------------

In regards to other statements:

Just as your attitude will reflect whether or not you would be a great leader, so too does your training reflect whether or not you will be a great fighter.

Thus, if your training physically and mentally, to win, no matter what, using whatever method or set of methods, along with a whatever it takes attitude, then at the very least, you will be a formidable opponent.

That said, the likelihood that you will be defeated rests upon the principle foundation that was given to you during your training.

A good fighter does what he/she can win.

A great fighter possesses all they need for greatness. Speed, timing, reaction, hand and foot skills, ground skills, and so on.

A champion is a great fighter that knows, understands, and is driven to pursue excellence beyond that of a great fighter, and carries that dominating characteristic with them in all facets of their life.

So regardless, of whether a person practices, CMA, TMA, JMA, or MMA, or even sport based systems, they will indeed have something to offer, so long as their training allows for their body, and mind to be dynamic, and focused.

Sport can be made deadly. Just as combat has been made into sport.

There are extremes of each, and there is a juxtaposed answer somewhere in the middle of the two.

Just some tidbit thoughts...

[h2whoa]

I think that any sensible martial artist will stop saying I dont think its real or they dont know anything, we are traditional and i will just kick my way out, and take themselves to a Judo/jujitsu/bjj training hall and learn to defend themselves on the ground......As unlikely as you are to meet a ground fighter, you will at least be prepared if you do. I can tell you alot of ground fighters (that is there base art), take the time to learn boxing or TKD or someother striking art.

[ElbowTKO]

If MMA does have its sport side... If one person wants to truly defend themselves I belive you should either practice in a self defense class. If you don't want a self defense class then I'm sorry MMA is the next best thing. Do Traditional martial arts teach better than MMA? No way in hell thier training is no where near intense. Although it all comes down to the person.

Just take a look at marine corp martial arts, they teach boxing punches, muay thai elbows, some karate front and round house, eye gouges, the muay thai clinch and knees, and defense from common chokes. Thats really about it.

and you'll be surprised at how bulldozing someone and putting them to the ground w/ no rules can be very effective.

[KempoTiger]

So regardless, of whether a person practices, CMA, TMA, JMA, or MMA, or even sport based systems, they will indeed have something to offer, so long as their training allows for their body, and mind to be dynamic, and focused

CMA and JMA???

[KempoTiger]

I dont agree that it creates bad habits, and on top of that, they're not going to fight anyone outside the ring who would be even remotely good enough to take advantage of their bad habits if they developed them. These guys train to fight like its a full time job.

Hence why I said...

Now I will concede, and I'm sure Subgrappler, and other full contact fighters will attest to the fact that the benefits of training for the ring far outweigh the hindrances. But nonetheless, the flaws are still there, and can be easily remedied by training in a street oriented MMA school.

I completely understand that the level of intensity that a sport martial artist trains in, is much higher than any normal TMA student ever engages in, thus achieving a higher level of ability. And some of the bad habits I refer to aren't even always bad things, but rather just not the quickest or most effective thing to do.

[White Warlock]

When you watch the people competing in the UFC, and then make the erroneous assumption MMA fighting is superior to all other types of fighting, it is because you are looking at a select event, with prime conditioned athletes pounding on each other under a set of very clearly defined rules.

These guys are in excellent shape, which is a far cry from where the vast majority of persons stand. Even 'without' some degree of training, these people would be formidable. C'mon... seriously folks. You cannot possibly make the comparison of 'highly conditioned athletes' against 'moderately conditioned traditional practitioners.' That is, after all, the comparison.

A second argument repeatedly presented is that MMA-type practitioners are better because of conditioning. This may be the case, but it is not the material studied as much as the conditioning presented. It is due to the TMAs being 'relaxed' for the larger market. Not everyone is a competition junkie, or an olympic-level athlete. Martial arts, both traditional and otherwise, cater to different body types and different levels of intensity. Yet, there are the more 'traditional' TMAs that are very much into olympic-level athleticism and conditioning, but these are not nearly as common as the 'after-work,' 'after-school' oriented TMA schools. So, it's not the material, it's the intensity of training and the conditioning of the practitioner.

As to the UFC, it is not the definer of who is best, definitely not. The style of conflict found in the UFC has been adjusted, modified, to accommodate the rules and restrictions imposed. The champions of such events are olympic-level athletes that have learned what 'works' in the ring, and have tossed out what is not applicable in the ring. That does not make them better than an olympic-level athlete who has studied a TMA intensively. It only makes them, "in the limelight."