Disgusted....New Rant

[KempoTiger]

Furthermore, friends of mine who train in MMA have come to change my views entirely on martial arts, but we've all come to realize that the true way to train to be the most effective when it counts, is not in a typical traditional dojo setting, but nor is it in a sport MMA school.

I'm not ranting against MMA, BJJ, Muay thai or anything along those lines, but rather those "flavor of the month" people who seem to think that the UFC represents the way you should train if you want to really have confidence in yourself and your abilities.

Edited October 23, 2005 by KempoTiger

[UseoForce]

I think there is an important point people always miss: No, MMA does not totally reflect the nature of a real fight.

Does it get as close as society allows? Yes. Is it the best testing ground available? Yes. Does it provide the best data we have for the realities of combat? Heck yes!

While MMA is not the end-all for proving combat applicability of a technique/art/principle, it is an important test. You should seriously consider all of the lessons of the octagon.

If you're not basing your ideas about fighting on MMA, what are you basing them on? MMA is not perfect, but it is undeniably the best test we have.

I'm not advocating that MMA is THE WAY to train. All I ask is that you apprecaite it and accept the lessons it teaches.

Many people who oppose MMA don't like it because it does not fit with their idea of what a fight "ought to" look like. My advice? Approach MMA with an open mind. Appreciate the incredible skill and conditioning of the fighters. Examine the techniques, strategy. Take it for what it's worth. Don't look for things you can question, look for lessons you can confirm.

[Menjo]

i dont think its that, i think people bash MMA because MMA recently has become popular and TMA feel like their being treated with no respect. Everyone knows MMA takes skill and all that stuff, its about status i think.

Kinda like the whole "look for the cause, not the effect" saying...

[KempoTiger]

I'm not advocating that MMA is THE WAY to train. All I ask is that you apprecaite it and accept the lessons it teaches.

Funny you say that, because I believe wholeheartedly that MMA is the perfect way to train. But far too many people go to MMA schools that train for sport purposes, and not in a realistic fashion, thus promoting countless bad habits and cause for a false sense of security. Sure the chances of you comming across someone who's trained enough in real combat technique who wants to fight you is pretty slim, but the point still stands. It's like those sport TMA advocates that argue that the chance of you comming across a trained MMA fighter is pretty slim.

[UseoForce]

It IS the way I train, whenever possible.

But I understand its not for everybody.

There'll always be "flavor of the month" people. There'll always be "bash the 'flavor of the month people' people" I wouldn't worry about it, unless they're causing you some kind of personal problem (if you had one in your school, for example).

[KempoTiger]

It IS the way I train, whenever possible.

But I understand its not for everybody.

There'll always be "flavor of the month" people. There'll always be "bash the 'flavor of the month people' people" I wouldn't worry about it, unless they're causing you some kind of personal problem (if you had one in your school, for example).

I had one. One of my other students ended up embarassing him with the gloves on. He chalked it up to being tired, and not that good yet, but he's certain that it's impossible to utilize alot of the grabbing and locking techniques that we teach, and that straight up boxing/grappling is the way to go.

He was only a lower ranking student, and ended up quitting for supposed undetermined reasons, but he's not the only one. I hear about people like that all the time, and I suppose I just have a lack of tolerance for unfounded egotistical ranting.....hrmm....*looks in the mirror*

...damn do I look good

[SubGrappler]

some styles try to think of martial arts not about fighting directly but a lifestlye which involves if forced apon to fight. So i wouldnt say all martial arts are about fighting, its about how you term the martial art. And those types of martial arts are meant to be seen in a certain way and carried out in a certain way dont join into some competetion to prove themselves to the media, i see a martial art as a personal thing, the martial art community can be looked on as a person also. The conclusion is that i think if a martial art is happy with what they do and how they do it why is everyone constantly challenging it? There really is no point. Good points though, i liked how you talked about the MMA staues in the world.

Then comes a completely different topic. If someone tells me that they're doing a specific martial art for fun, I have no problems whatsoever and dont criticize in the least if I see a class full of bogus techniques and philosophies. The problem occurs when these people pick a poor fighting style (which is irrelevant if you're looking for a hobby) but then they assume that because they're taking "martial arts" they're deadly, know how to fight, but must avoid doing so at all costs because they're too deadly.

Why must people challenge martial arts? Because martial arts are like a science. If you have an idea, you have to open it to criticism. If it withstands the test, then you've got something credible here. You pull at all the edges and see if any loose stuff comes off.

Mixed martial arts are strictly about fighting, and theres no two ways about it, you're going to learn how to fight much more effectively with mixed martial arts than you will with any other single art (this includes TMA's). To reasoning here is rather simple- you're taking the best from both worlds and developing it into one. You'll be an effective fighter on your feet, in the clinch, and on the ground.

Now, if you want to talk about things such as situational awareness (i.e. I noticed this guy is following me... etc) thats a different topic. Mixed martial arts skips all the precursors of a fight and gets right to the fight itself, teaching you how to deal with that. When it comes to that, there is yet to be a better system .

[Menjo]

ok, poor wording on my half. Thats not what i meant at all but ok

[KempoTiger]

Why must people challenge martial arts? Because martial arts are like a science.

I like the way you worded that. I'll have to steal it and use it one of these days

Mixed martial arts are strictly about fighting, and theres no two ways about it, you're going to learn how to fight much more effectively with mixed martial arts than you will with any other single art (this includes TMA's)

Here's where I agree and disagree. I agree wholeheartedly on the premise that MMA training is the best way to train no matter what your goal whether it be self defense or ring fighting. But I disagree with the idea that (you didn't say this, so this isn't directed at you) that all MMA schools are teaching the most efficient techniques for defending yourself and comming out on top outside of the ring, and that the UFC as well as other fighting competitions depict the best "fighters" around. Perhaps the best competitor in the competition. Perhaps the best athlete in the sport. Perhaps I'd even be willing to go so far that they are the most dedicated martial artists due to the lengths they go to train so hard. But the best fighters or martial artists they are not.

Proving one to be the best martial artist is like proving if there is or isn't God. We just don't have the means to test such claims. In one case scientifically, and the other legally.

[SubGrappler]

I can handle that approach- the way I read your first argument it sounded that you were arguing that MMA is only a sport and that "my japanese master" would handle these guys.