No need for WTF

[MasterH]

How can you know how many good instructors you know for every bad one that he knows if you don't know how many bad ones he knows?

I don't know how many he knows, I know about 24 instructors, about 8 personally pretty well. Out of those 24, I'd peg 3 as all about the money, and about 3-4 more as decent instructors, but nothing awe inspiring. The rest range from pretty good to downright incredible.

I'd guess that those proportions are probably pretty close to just about every large MA organization out there. 10-12% in it for the money, about 15-20% just kind of competent, and the rest ranging on up.

Aodhan

Yea.........what he said.

Look I've got 20 years under my belt, I know alot of current and former ATA instructors, and very few are "bad". I learn something new most every time I hang out with them, sometimes business - sometimes a new trick when dealing with ADD - sometimes just training.

Good people!

[Shinobi187]

In all Respect MasterH,

Just about any WTF school is miles above ANY ATA school. The ATA is a great place to send a child to learn respect amd some exercise, but not REAL MA. WTF may be olympic TKD but IMHO is still miles above the ATA. I have visited around 20 ATA schools in the past few years and the all qualify as Mcdojos or Mcdaycares with 9 year old black belts. In regards to the ATA I allways have heard people defending them as saying "yeah, some ATA schools suck, but not mine!" Well you know what that excuse only works a few times. The ATA is about bilking studenst for money NOT about martial arts training. Perhaps when you studied with the ATA they were legit, but they no longer are. I encourage you to visit a few of their schools and you will see what I am talking about.

--Shinobi187

[MasterH]

In all Respect MasterH,

Just about any WTF school is miles above ANY ATA school. The ATA is a great place to send a child to learn respect amd some exercise, but not REAL MA. WTF may be olympic TKD but IMHO is still miles above the ATA. I have visited around 20 ATA schools in the past few years and the all qualify as Mcdojos or Mcdaycares with 9 year old black belts. In regards to the ATA I allways have heard people defending them as saying "yeah, some ATA schools suck, but not mine!" Well you know what that excuse only works a few times. The ATA is about bilking studenst for money NOT about martial arts training. Perhaps when you studied with the ATA they were legit, but they no longer are. I encourage you to visit a few of their schools and you will see what I am talking about.

--Shinobi187

I'll go to my parents school next week, I'll fill you in on what I find.

-Adam

[White Warlock]

MasterH, one example does not make for a reasonable survey. But, of course, you know that.

[MartialArthur]

Just about any WTF school is miles above ANY ATA school. The ATA is a great place to send a child to learn respect amd some exercise, but not REAL MA. WTF may be olympic TKD but IMHO is still miles above the ATA. I have visited around 20 ATA schools in the past few years and the all qualify as Mcdojos or Mcdaycares with 9 year old black belts. In regards to the ATA I allways have heard people defending them as saying "yeah, some ATA schools suck, but not mine!" Well you know what that excuse only works a few times. The ATA is about bilking studenst for money NOT about martial arts training. Perhaps when you studied with the ATA they were legit, but they no longer are. I encourage you to visit a few of their schools and you will see what I am talking about

Shinobi187, I have to disagree. Among my students I have several former WTF students and several former ATA students. In my opinion the former ATA students arrive as superior martial artists. They seem to be more well rounded and tend to be better at sparring.

I'm not saying that the WTF students are not good, I've just been pleasantly surprised by the ATA students.

[MasterH]

MasterH, one example does not make for a reasonable survey. But, of course, you know that.

Yes I do, I don't think my tone comes thru the "keyboard translation" the way I like. All I'm saying is, I know what I know. I'm an insider on the outside of the ATA. I've been around the block, and ATA students measure up well against anyone. I won't lie, I'm not a WTF fan in general, and I tend to lean on the side of the ITF, but it comes down to the indivisual and what they put into their art.

Now do I have trust in an 9 y/o instructor - no. Do I respect a 9 y/o with a black belt, sure why not? Am I going to give a 9 y/o a black belt, they'd have to earn it like anyone else. This is where the Jr. Black Belts come in...........but that's another thread.

-Adam

Hi WW

Edited November 6, 2005 by MasterH

[MasterH]

Just about any WTF school is miles above ANY ATA school. The ATA is a great place to send a child to learn respect amd some exercise, but not REAL MA. WTF may be olympic TKD but IMHO is still miles above the ATA. I have visited around 20 ATA schools in the past few years and the all qualify as Mcdojos or Mcdaycares with 9 year old black belts. In regards to the ATA I allways have heard people defending them as saying "yeah, some ATA schools suck, but not mine!" Well you know what that excuse only works a few times. The ATA is about bilking studenst for money NOT about martial arts training. Perhaps when you studied with the ATA they were legit, but they no longer are. I encourage you to visit a few of their schools and you will see what I am talking about

Shinobi187, I have to disagree. Among my students I have several former WTF students and several former ATA students. In my opinion the former ATA students arrive as superior martial artists. They seem to be more well rounded and tend to be better at sparring.

I'm not saying that the WTF students are not good, I've just been pleasantly surprised by the ATA students.

I don't dissagree, but that's an opinion. Put an averave ATA student in a WTF tourney and they wouldn't go three rounds. Put a WTF student in an ATA national event and they would not last. Apples and Oranges...........

[MasterH]

MasterH, one example does not make for a reasonable survey. But, of course, you know that.

By the way he did say "any ATA school"...............sounds like a chalenge.

[White Warlock]

lol

on both counts

[MartialArthur]

I don't dissagree, but that's an opinion.

Isn't that we we are all offering here, opinions? Shinobi187 offered his opinion, and I strongly disagree with his contention, so I offered mine.

Put an averave ATA student in a WTF tourney and they wouldn't go three rounds. Put a WTF student in an ATA national event and they would not last. Apples and Oranges...........

Of course, but I'm talking about taking students from each org and putting them in a style neither has trained in.