No need for WTF

[IcemanSK]

Understand, WTF is a governing body of TKD as a national sport of South Korea. This governing body also regulates rules which are observed to ge tthe most out of a sport with safety in mind of participants (sp).

Any Martial art that is studied is to be accecpted as an assistance to fighting, IF needed. There is no martial art that is perfect for all uses (in and out of the ring). We must nderstand what it is we are looking to learn. I accept things I am taught from my WTF master as well as I question some things. Such is life. I never say this is bad or this style is better. Accept them all as guides through life.

I've been around a while & have seen the ATA, WTF, ITF & a host of others at their best & worst. I really don't think its a question of whether we NEED these organizations. We have them & their here to stay. The question is about the instructors. Can they teach? Do they like teaching TKD (of any type their a part of)? Do they care more about the students than getting huge testing fees, looking good to their instructor &/or being "X" rank themselves? If so, stick w/ that instructor. Otherwise, go find someone who loves the art & wants to share it w/ you.

My 2 cents.

[niel0092]

If your kick only made him mad then you did it wrong. Enough said.

The whole ITF vs WTF vs ATA thing is getting kinda tired folks...

[MasterH]

If your kick only made him mad then you did it wrong. Enough said.

The whole ITF vs WTF vs ATA thing is getting kinda tired folks...

Yes, but it will be around for a long time to come. ITF vs WTF has been around for longer than most on the sight have.

[White Warlock]

Organizations/associations do not define quality of instruction. I wish they would, and that they would make a more active approach to monitoring the quality of instruction their members provide, but... well... that's what ITF kinda tried to do, and it backfired. Now they have multiple associations, each with thier own perceptions of how things should be managed.

Simply put, caveat emptor. Or maybe, "life is like a box of chocolates..."

[IcemanSK]

Organizations/associations do not define quality of instruction. I wish they would, and that they would make a more active approach to monitoring the quality of instruction their members provide, but... well... that's what ITF kinda tried to do, and it backfired. Now they have multiple associations, each with thier own perceptions of how things should be managed.

Simply put, caveat emptor. Or maybe, "life is like a box of chocolates..."

Well put. Its sad, but true.

[Aodhan]

Organizations/associations do not define quality of instruction. I wish they would, and that they would make a more active approach to monitoring the quality of instruction their members provide, but... well... that's what ITF kinda tried to do, and it backfired. Now they have multiple associations, each with thier own perceptions of how things should be managed.

Simply put, caveat emptor. Or maybe, "life is like a box of chocolates..."

While the ATA doesn't define "quality of instruction", I think they do the best at keeping instruction standards high. I won't delineate (again) the certification process, but it usually takes a couple years, and then the certification to teach is only good for 3 years. At the end of those 3 years, you have to recertify, which includes assessment of all lower rank material, emphasizing teaching techniques and methods, etc etc.

Personally, I think ALL organizations (ATA included) should send people out from their respective HQ's to randomly monitor instruction on site for a week at least once a year, but that will probably never happen.

Aodhan

[MasterH]

Personally, I think ALL organizations (ATA included) should send people out from their respective HQ's to randomly monitor instruction on site for a week at least once a year, but that will probably never happen.

Aodhan

Never happen, most orgs are just way to big. That's why we have a certification process so qualified personell will make the good decisions.

[Ottman]

Personally, I think ALL organizations (ATA included) should send people out from their respective HQ's to randomly monitor instruction on site for a week at least once a year, but that will probably never happen.

Never happen, most orgs are just way to big. That's why we have a certification process so qualified personell will make the good decisions.

I don't think the ATA, WTF, ITF, etc. have any business setting standards for instruction at all. These organizations function NOT to dictate to instructors what/how/when/where/why they should be teaching, but to bring together instructors and martial artists under an organization that can determine standardized rules for competitions, and provide services to help the instructors with their BUSINESS, not their teaching. This is the biggest reason (among many others) that I hate the ATA vs. ITF vs. WTF debate. It really has nothing to do with the way an instructor teaches, or the style they teach with, and more to do with business than anything else. Does the Professional Boxing Association (or federation or whatever they call themselves) tell gym owners, and boxing managers and trainers how to train their boxers? Not the last time I checked. Instead they exist to sanction and promote matches and determine rules for competition. It's just business and has nothing to do with the art of boxing, just like the WTF and ITF and ATA are about business and not about the art of TKD. Any certifications and standards they have should be focused entirely on maintaining safe competitions, and should have nothing to do with an instructor's ability to teach the art of TKD as they see fit.

[IcemanSK]

Personally, I think ALL organizations (ATA included) should send people out from their respective HQ's to randomly monitor instruction on site for a week at least once a year, but that will probably never happen.

Never happen, most orgs are just way to big. That's why we have a certification process so qualified personell will make the good decisions.

I don't think the ATA, WTF, ITF, etc. have any business setting standards for instruction at all. These organizations function NOT to dictate to instructors what/how/when/where/why they should be teaching, but to bring together instructors and martial artists under an organization that can determine standardized rules for competitions, and provide services to help the instructors with their BUSINESS, not their teaching. This is the biggest reason (among many others) that I hate the ATA vs. ITF vs. WTF debate. It really has nothing to do with the way an instructor teaches, or the style they teach with, and more to do with business than anything else. Does the Professional Boxing Association (or federation or whatever they call themselves) tell gym owners, and boxing managers and trainers how to train their boxers? Not the last time I checked. Instead they exist to sanction and promote matches and determine rules for competition. It's just business and has nothing to do with the art of boxing, just like the WTF and ITF and ATA are about business and not about the art of TKD. Any certifications and standards they have should be focused entirely on maintaining safe competitions, and should have nothing to do with an instructor's ability to teach the art of TKD as they see fit.

Wow, is that not a comparison you wanna make...MA instructors (of any type) & boxing trainers! To get a license as a boxing trainer in most states (& states are the only ones who do this) all one needs is (as Teddy Atlas puts it) "A towel on your shoulder." In other words, nothing but a pulse. Part of the push to get a nation boxing commission is to change the standard for boxing trainers, too. No organization ITF, ATA, WTF etc. wants to have such a low standard for their instructors. Its equivalent to buying a black belt from Century & saying "Come, let me teach you."

I agree that it would be impossible for any federation to monitor the instructors very closely. But to say that they don't have a stake in how their art is being taught isn't accurate either. The only thing they can do is offer good instructor's classes & hope its important to instructors that they grow in their ability to teach. If its made mandatory, they'll bolt & start their own association.

[Aodhan]

I don't think the ATA, WTF, ITF, etc. have any business setting standards for instruction at all. These organizations function NOT to dictate to instructors what/how/when/where/why they should be teaching, but to bring together instructors and martial artists under an organization that can determine standardized rules for competitions, and provide services to help the instructors with their BUSINESS, not their teaching.

Not true as far as the ATA is concerned. As far as I know, WTF and ITF don't dictate which set of forms you should use (Pal gue, tae guk, etc). ATA does. The Songahm style of forms is copyrighted by the ATA, and to teach them, you must be certified by the ATA. This is done to keep standards high, and the same no matter where you go.

Also, the ATA teacher certification process teaches you HOW to teach. It has class management skills, organization, class planning, etc etc. You don't pass the certifications? You don't get to teach independently. WTF and ITF, as soon as you have the rank, you can go open a school.

Also, the ATA has standards in place to keep ATA schools from opening on top of one another. WTF/ITF if you open a school, there is nothing to keep another instructor from opening across the street.

Which would you rather have? A governing organization that sets standards and enforces them for quality instruction, or one that lets any 2nd degree with some bucks open a school?

Aodhan