Technique or strength?

[elbows_and_knees]

Bodybuilders gas in about a minute and then they beg for forgiveness I know this from experience. My school used to be in a gym where their were some serious competitive bodybuilders. Skill involves more than just knowing a technique just knowing is like just owning a tool you don't know how to use. Skill = Experience, knowledge, timing and athletic ability.

actually, ANYONE in a high adrenaline situation will gas in 1 - 2 minutes. This is why it's imperative to have good cardio and / or the ability to end a fight quickly. Adrenaline gives you a quick rush, but once the rush is done, you are sapped.

[TKDguy]

Ego, I dont know where you got that info from... a Body builder would have a lot more "gas" than the Juijitsu guy. because the body builder is one, a fitness freak therefore has great stamina... and lets not all kid our selves, size matters... what is the juijitsu guy gonna do get him to the ground and try to get an arm bar on him.. I dont think so... on a different note. now a days... a black belt doesnt mean that much to me why... because I have seen instructors who are MAJORLY overweight and go to mc. donalds after class and there is at least one in every "dojo"... Lets get real... "come give me your money and I will give you a black belt"

Andrew

[Anbu Alex]

People in this post keep talking about strength in my opinion strenght isnt everything and boxer as someone brought up does have strength but combines it with development of speed, and Technique and able to fight for a long time. ive faced people who are stronger than me and beat them with pure technique strength doesnt always overpower tech thats more of a mma thing thats how the gracies dominated mma with tech usally also ppl who rely on strenght will lose to a guy with better endurance/Durability (i know from experience) im not denying strength is a factor but it isnt everything in martial arts

[Menjo]

yea, i agree dont loose sight of the obvious facts.

[Ego Assassin]

Actually if tkdguy knows anything about bodybuilding you would know its bad for your health. My school used to be in a gym with competitive bodybuilders and they all gas and yes I do put them on the ground submit them at will. Like I said I know from experience. And I'm talking about the unnatural type of bodybuilder. My favorite is to get them on their back because most can't breath very well with their own weight let alone mine on them too.

P.S. I world championship in BJJ, a bronze at the Pan Ams And national gold medalist and absolute gold medalist. The big guys are not a problem.

[elbows_and_knees]

Ego, I dont know where you got that info from... a Body builder would have a lot more "gas" than the Juijitsu guy. because the body builder is one, a fitness freak therefore has great stamina... and lets not all kid our selves, size matters... what is the juijitsu guy gonna do get him to the ground and try to get an arm bar on him.. I dont think so... on a different note. now a days... a black belt doesnt mean that much to me why... because I have seen instructors who are MAJORLY overweight and go to mc. donalds after class and there is at least one in every "dojo"... Lets get real... "come give me your money and I will give you a black belt"

Andrew

dude... go to a gym and interview a bodybuilder. They are NOT fitness freaks. They are IRON freaks. They like to lift. that's it. Cardio work is counter productive to them getting bigger, so they do little to no cardio. The ONLY reason they do any cardio at all is to cut weight in the on-season. They would gas very quickly.

there is an old bodybuilding saying: "if you can run, you may as well walk. If you can walk, you may as well sit. If you can sit - you may as well lay down and go to sleep."

I agree with you to an extent on belts though. In most styles, a belt doesn't mean much. However, in capoeira and bjj, you MUST earn them. I have all the respect in the world for high ranks in those styles.

Edited October 19, 2005 by elbows_and_knees

[elbows_and_knees]

People in this post keep talking about strength in my opinion strenght isnt everything and boxer as someone brought up does have strength but combines it with development of speed, and Technique and able to fight for a long time. ive faced people who are stronger than me and beat them with pure technique strength doesnt always overpower tech thats more of a mma thing thats how the gracies dominated mma with tech usally also ppl who rely on strenght will lose to a guy with better endurance/Durability (i know from experience) im not denying strength is a factor but it isnt everything in martial arts

that's actually NOT an MMA thing. the gracies really didn't dominate the mma guys... they actually don't do all that well against mma. they did good in the early days when people were mainly TMA, or only trained in one sport style.

As for strength, I addressed that earlier. Strength DOES overpower - that is it's nature. But, as skill levels separate, strength becomes less important. In other words, it should be easier for a skilled person to be a lesser skilled person who has more strength. On the other hand, if the person is the same skill level (or close to it) AND they are stronger, you will have a run for your money.

[Anbu Alex]

ok thanks for clearing that up. i say it depends on who wants it more and trained the hardest

[shogeri]

Bodybuilding, thus weight training, is anaerobic. It will not, by itself build stamina, endurance, or cardiovascular strength.

No matter what size their mass is, they simply will not last during a given situation unless they either;

a) have a work out routine that includes enough cardio (based on their BMI and BMR),

b) are on illegal drugs that give them a high, or

c) have friends to help pummel you to the ground

Most bodybuilders that are not professional about it, do not do aerobic exercises, nor are their muscles flexible, nor are their senses and reflexes keen or sharp.

On the flip side, not all karateka are properly trained to take on different sized opponents, in different situations, such as with innocent bystanders, or vehicles around, or chairs, and desks, and so on. Some cannot fight their way out of a wet paper sack, even with instructions included.

Essentially, there are not guarantees in any situation, and each one is guaranteed to have some surprise built into it.

[h2whoa]

There is alot of idle chatter, if you come up against a man/woman of superior strength, height etc. The only thing that will help you survive is tactics.

When i am visualising, my attacker is always bigger, stronger and faster than me. The questions than becomes how do I take that strength? How do I slow them down? To beat a superior opponent a fine understanding of body mechanics is vital!

I know I have said this alot but, body builders/ or generally muscly guys, have pushed their nerves closer to the skin. Striking nerve bundles is an easy way to "kill" apendages and cause great discomfort () ! It will boil down to your ability to out last your opponent, it will boil down to your training.

Remember its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog!!

So sit quietly in your meditation time, visualise yourself defeating goliath! Figure out how you would do it! And train for it!!