Technique or strength?

[Ego Assassin]

Bodybuilders also have weak joints so attacking the joints with leverage is extremely effective.

[TKDguy]

Bodybuilders also have weak joints so attacking the joints with leverage is extremely effective.

yes some have weak joints but not most because, if that were true then body builders wont be as big as they are today...

[Ego Assassin]

Steroids make the muscles stronger than the tendons and so create weak joints. I teach Jiu Jistsu to many ex-bodybuilders and I'm trying to give you the facts not my opinion. Bodybuilders put a mack truck on a volvo frame and the heart and lungs don't grow along with the muscles so you have a four cylinder powering a mack truck.

[White Warlock]

These are interesting observations, but ... well, they just don't jive with my gut feelings. I am aware that many bodybuilders damage their interior in an effort to develop their exterior, but not all. In fact, i don't believe it is the majority.

As to weaknesses, everyone has the same or similar weaknesses. You can develop muscles, but there's very little you can do to develop ligament, or tendons, or cartilage, or bone. Nerves are still where they were when born, but tensioned muscles 'can' protect most vital areas, so that exploit should not be overemphasized. The brain, and all other organs, are still full exploitable. A shot to the kidney is still possible. A jarring of the brain, a shot to the jaw, a smack to the temple, a dislocate of the knee, foot, elbow, neck...

I'm sorry, i just don't see what all this emphasis on 'strength' is all about. It's a factor, yes, but it is not all that relevant if the person wielding the strength has 'no' skills. And don't get me wrong. I'm no slouch. I'm rather strong, but i'm also plenty stronger than i look... because of technique, approach, experience. When a musclebound guy, who had years of boxing and jujutsu, tried to put a lock on my arm, wrist, fingers for fun... i 'dismissively' thwarted his efforts, not even looking at what he was doing, and put him in a fingerlock instead. His strength was useless, because his skills were inadequate.

Also, what matters more than strength, when 'striking,' is speed. A powerful shot to a part of the body is important, but not if it moves too slow to make impact. And to compare bulk, examine featherweight boxers to heavyweight boxers. Immediately you'll think, "wow, those heavyweight guys are huge and can do a lot of damage." But then you probably should pay attention to the featherwieght, who moves about so dang quickly, it's hard to imagine him being tagged by the heavyweight. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine the featherweight doing any damage to the heavyweight. But, this is caused mainly by perceptions. We see bulk and we make the assumption that bulk equates to power, when such is not the case.

Strength does play a part in power, but not nearly as much as technique.. application, experience. You develop yourself, your approach, how you apply it... and you increase the speed of delivery, thus increasing the damage imposed. As well, a strong strike is useless if it fails to connect cleanly. An angled shot is weak, for it deflects off the opponent. These things are learned. Being strong doesn't provide this knowledge, only training does.

[elbows_and_knees]

I'm sorry, i just don't see what all this emphasis on 'strength' is all about. It's a factor, yes, but it is not all that relevant if the person wielding the strength has 'no' skills.

As for strength, I addressed that earlier. Strength DOES overpower - that is it's nature. But, as skill levels separate, strength becomes less important. In other words, it should be easier for a skilled person to be a lesser skilled person who has more strength. On the other hand, if the person is the same skill level (or close to it) AND they are stronger, you will have a run for your money.

And don't get me wrong. I'm no slouch. I'm rather strong, but i'm also plenty stronger than i look...

Why do people always assume strength = big? One of the strongest powerlifters I know of only weighs 135lbs...

because of technique, approach, experience. When a musclebound guy, who had years of boxing and jujutsu, tried to put a lock on my arm, wrist, fingers for fun... i 'dismissively' thwarted his efforts, not even looking at what he was doing, and put him in a fingerlock instead. His strength was useless, because his skills were inadequate.

see above.

Also, what matters more than strength, when 'striking,' is speed. A powerful shot to a part of the body is important, but not if it moves too slow to make impact. And to compare bulk, examine featherweight boxers to heavyweight boxers. Immediately you'll think, "wow, those heavyweight guys are huge and can do a lot of damage." But then you probably should pay attention to the featherwieght, who moves about so dang quickly, it's hard to imagine him being tagged by the heavyweight.

honestly, do you think tyson would be incapable of hitting de la hoya? the problem with the speed issue is people try to compare speeds that just don't happen in humans. a mac truck going 15 mph and a ferrari cruising and 140 - sure, the ferrari has more impact and the mac truck could never catch nor impact it... But in HUMANS?? We don't move that fast or that slow. you're not gonna find a heavyweight fighter that is incapable of touching a lightweight fighter. Like I said, when skill levels approach an equal level...

On the other hand, it's hard to imagine the featherweight doing any damage to the heavyweight. But, this is caused mainly by perceptions. We see bulk and we make the assumption that bulk equates to power, when such is not the case.

then why bother to have weight classes? it's not about the bulk itself providing more power, although that plays a part. Due to the weight difference, it will be A LOT harder for the little guy to KO the bigger guy based on his size alone. I know that fist hand as I am ALWAYS the smallest heavyweight in my division in EVERYTHING I compete in.

Being strong doesn't provide this knowledge, only training does.

and when you have both, you have a distinct trump card.

[elbows_and_knees]

I know I have said this alot but, body builders/ or generally muscly guys, have pushed their nerves closer to the skin. Striking nerve bundles is an easy way to "kill" apendages and cause great discomfort () ! It will boil down to your ability to out last your opponent, it will boil down to your training.

speaking as a big guy - I'm 5'9 and about 233, so if you imagine the way Tyson looks, that's about my size - and that is not a factor for me. pressure point / joint lock sensitivity differs from person to person. There are some that simply do not work on me. on the other hand, there are others that work extremely well.

Remember its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog!!

so what happens when the big dog has just as much fight as you do?

[Ego Assassin]

Weight and strength matter when you are of the same skill level. And if you want to see what bodybuilding does to people go to the Arnold Classic and see for yourself. Also its a great event with Martial Arts tournaments and demonstrations.

[elbows_and_knees]

from what the guys tell me though, it wasn't organized too well last year. A few of our bjj guys went and placed well. I may go next year, but if I do it will likely be for san shou or something, not bjj.

[Ego Assassin]

Its never run well but the brazilian teams bring good competition.

[KarateKid6781]

i would have to disagree, some huge muscular guys, theyre bodies are so well built that they can withstand a couple of blows with baseball bats, so the only tactic that would be useful is a pressure point hit