How Long?

[JusticeZero]

A black belt in a style is like a bachelor's degree in a field. In many fields, a BA or * is the bare minimum, you're considered to borely have scratched the surface but at least not you have enough principles that your eyes won't glaze when you deal with the field. To really get anywhere in those fields you need postgrad, and that's the MA, Ph.D, LL, MD, etc. that the 'black belt' means you're ready to start working toward.

[White Warlock]

Well, nowadays, a black belt is more like an associates 'certificate.' Just a mastery of the 'basics,' with little to no peripheral understandings and a definite need for more education to be applicable in the field (street).

[Menjo]

whats wierd is that everyone martial artist i pretty much talk to, dont actually like the whole belt idea. If EVERYONE(with exceptions of course) doesnt like it, why is it still around? Or is it for marketing?

[White Warlock]

marketing is one thing, an important thing.

[Goju_boi]

Well a lot of kids , people that don't know too much, and parents love the belts.

[orion82698]

whats wierd is that everyone martial artist i pretty much talk to, dont actually like the whole belt idea. If EVERYONE(with exceptions of course) doesnt like it, why is it still around? Or is it for marketing?

What would the McDojo's do without 18 belts before black? How would they stay a float without their $30 fees with every belt? What would they do without there $200 to $500 black belt testing fee? What would the parents do for there kids? Honestly, I think that's the only reason a parent enrolls their kids in MA. "Well, Jonny's a Black belt!"

[Goju_boi]

"Honestly, I think that's the only reason a parent enrolls their kids in MA. "Well, Jonny's a Black belt!" "

exactly,it's kind of like a good report card.Anyways a while ago I was reading a artiacle in a mag. and it was about a kung-fu school.You this was a very traditional kung fu school that just wore the sweat looking pants and a simple t-shirt.Then when some family came to check out the school, they asked to see the instructor and complained to him "why can't the kids have a colored belt and uniform?" The intstructor replied " Things aren't done like that here. If you want that you should go to another school." The family just left frustated.

[orion82698]

LOL!

As funny as that story is, it's also very sad. Sad to know that, that school was probably one of the best for them to learn Kung-Fu, and probably since they didn't have to pay uniforms or belts, the best priced. Everyone always complians about McDojo's and putting them outta business, however as long as there are parents around that want there child to be blackbelt, or themselves in less than 3 years, there will always be a "McDojo" around.

[Menjo]

good points there

[shogeri]

I have and always will follow the quality along with quantity method.

If a student has:

1) The proper mental attitude

2) Is mature for their age

3) Achieved the best physical results

4) Learned the technique(s) and the principle(s) behind it

5) Shown an understanding of the concepts of dynamic fighting

6) The talent and learning capacity to move forward

Then indeed they are ready to go to the next level, up to and including Black Belt, regardless of the time put toward it.

That said, there should still be a minimum standard in place for the time period in which the student is allowed to advanced to the next level. Not for tradition sake, rather to allow the basics to sink in over time.

I could teach a person how to fight, and get into shape in 18 months. And if fighting to win is what they want, then they have to work for it. This would be a challenge that takes alot of personal sacrifice in regards to time, effort, and mental training and so on.

A Black Belt to me, signifies that a person has not only the technical skills, but more importantly, the principle fighting methods in which to adapt to many different situations and opponents.

Thus, it is not equivalent to a bachelor degree at the regular belt level in which you could take it off shelf, and hand it to them.

Rather, it is a certification of ability and accomplishment, that represents to others your aptitude for being able to defend yourself effectively, efficiently, dynamically, and successfully.

Again that is a Black Belt to me, and that is really all a person needs in terms of learning how to defend themselves on a fighting level. So 18 months is not unreasonable.

At the shodan level, it becomes an associates degree, in that we add a little more time, and more principles and a few more techniques. A year perhaps. Maybe just 6 months, at a minimum, in case the person excels or something. This brings the total to 24 months at a minimum. Same as the average associates degree.

Then comes the Nidan level, it is here that a person is, to me, a Baccalaureate of the particular system. They further themselves as a teaching in training.

In academics, they say that the Bachelor degree itself is worth up to 2 years of experience at the most. In MA, a year minimum will suffice.

At Sandan level, they hold a Master's degree. This is the teaching level in academics, and should be in MA as well.

At Yondan / Yodan / Shodan level, it would be considered a Doctorates.

Anything above that is just icing on the cake.

Perhaps at the Godan level, they would be considered head of the style or founder of the style. Of course such is possible on the Shidan level as well.

So through 3rd dan or sandan, it could take 3 years of solid, fierce training. Some people might stretch this out to 5 to 7 years.

Time and quality in regards to the above ideal ranking system is expediated in private training, seminar, along with an abundance of one on one training.

This removes such from the McDojo stain or qualification.

A McDojo is either a school that hands out rank (at any level) based on technique alone, or time alone, or sometimes based upon ability to pay large amounts of money at once or over a period of time.

The quality of what they teach is also scrutinized, but not as much as the means by which a person received recognition within such system. A school that turns out Black Belts as a business, or makes robots out of people, is a McDojo to me.

A system that can prove itself, regardless of what negative things are said about it, is not a necessarily a McDojo.

My above proposed ranking system is geared toward a combative, fighting principle system, and not one heavily glazed with technique. When there are more techniques and arrangements to learn, of course the timeline is increase.

The point is at those levels in Black Belt, the capacity to win in situations increases, and the techniques are further explored, applied, and principally understood.

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Just some brief thoughts.