BJJ vs Judo

[elbows_and_knees]

My school is the same way. Also, I hear that a lot of the better exponents in brazil are typically cross trained in judo as well.

[ravenzoom]

Perhaps, but in the original question it was asked between the two styles taken alone. Not whatever has been added by a dojo. A Wing Chun dojo might mix Wing Chun with Sambo to make it a more complete style. What the original post was aiming for was between two seperate styles, not what each individual dojo has incorpotated in its curriculum. However, because of recent MMA events many BJJ dojos have incorporated all kinds of different moves from different martial arts to do better on the MMA scene, but this is not what authentic (like Royce Gracie used to practice in early UFCs to do) BJJ was like.

[White Warlock]

My last judo instructor was also my wrestling coach. There are always the mixers, but ravenzoom is correct. That was not within the context of the question posed. To examine this question and present a reasoned answer, one must take the question from its uncluttered intent.

[elbows_and_knees]

Actually it was within context. BJJ came from judo, and hence has judo throws in it. Notice I never mentioned wrestling. In a bare bones bjj class, you will still learn basic judo throws, like o goshi, ippon seionage and tani otoshi. Also, if you ever attend a bjj self defense session, it revolves mainly around stand up grappling.

[Goju_boi]

"if you ever attend a bjj self defense session, it revolves mainly around stand up grappling."

why?isn't it's way of thinking to take it to the ground?

[SubGrappler]

"if you ever attend a bjj self defense session, it revolves mainly around stand up grappling."

why?isn't it's way of thinking to take it to the ground?

You're making an assumption based on MMA events.

In an MMA event (the early ones particularly) you had no time limits and a one on one fight with another opponent who often did not have ground experience- in this situation, of course its great to take it to the ground.

The reason why you see alot of self defense on the feet in a BJJ class is because regardless that most fights end up on the ground, practically all of them start on the feet. The whole idea behind BJJ is "maximum efficiency with minimum effort."

Take into account to that all fights do not take place like they do in the cage where both fighters start from 20 feet apart and come out ready to engage. Sucker attacks are very common (i.e. a sucker punch, a quick tackle, or a quick headlock). Now in the instance someone decides to put you in a headlock on the feet, a regular sport only BJJ fighter would most likely be able to break the hold, take the guy down, achieve a dominant position, and either submit or pound the opponent to a pulp, but this wouldnt fit in with the philosophy of maximum efficiency minimum effort when you look at simple counters such as into an armlock or choke that can be executed on the feet.

[Goju_boi]

hmm makes sense. Anyways why does bjj have self defense sessions if most places teach the sport version of it?

[SubGrappler]

Because there are different schools of thought when it comes to BJJ. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Gracie Jiu Jitsu arent exactly the same thing- you can be taught BJJ from a non Gracie.

Some people only care about the sport aspect of BJJ, in that they want their students to win as many tournament and have as many medals in their school to show off as possible.

The Gracies, on the other, and a few others still remember why BJJ was created, and that was pure self defense in real life situations. People may take some things, such as defending a punch, for granted, but there are other things to take into account when considering self defense (one of them including awareness).

Helio Gracie once proposed a question in one of his interviews- "how many ways do you know how to pass half guard?" he then asked "now ask yourself how many ways you know how to escape out of a basic headlock on the feet." He said he wouldnt be surprised if the answers were 10 and 0 respectively.

I believe there was an instance a long time ago (say a little less than 10 years) when a BJJ school in California accused the Gracies of holding back techniques. This accusation came due to the schools dreaded showing in sport tournaments. In reality, what was happening was that the Gracies were showing many aspects of self defense jiu jitsu, while the other schools ignored that aspect and focused solely on the sportive part of it.

One is not the same as the other. Take for instance Royce Gracie vs Amaury Bitteti. Bitteti is a far better jiu jitsu fighter than Royce is, and has won the world championships twice. Once they fought in the UFC though, Bitteti could not replicate the success that Royce had, and he took some vicious elbows at the hands of Don Frye, most likely due to the fact that his mind was still trying to make the transition from sport BJJ to fighting BJJ.

[Goju_boi]

thanks for clearing it up

[Just]

Actually it was within context. BJJ came from judo, and hence has judo throws in it. Notice I never mentioned wrestling. In a bare bones bjj class, you will still learn basic judo throws, like o goshi, ippon seionage and tani otoshi. Also, if you ever attend a bjj self defense session, it revolves mainly around stand up grappling.

one of the posts before you stated that they learned Judo but "concentrated on ground fighting" and added more submission holds or something like that.

so I gess they may or may not have kept the throws, but if they kept them, they are not the primarry techniques and would not be practiced as much. (and the Judo guys, having to spread training time between standup and ground fighting, would like wise not be able to practice the ground stuff as much as the BJJ folks)

see I'm getting the hang of this.