The value of your Black Belt!

[SubGrappler]

I dont think there are any 12 year olds who deserve to have a black belt.

Im not saying you're supposed to be invincible, but a black belt should be an adequate teacher capable of backing what he teaches (i.e. make the move work against a resisting opponent).

Because black belt was so highly regarded say, back in the 70s, it gives many people the misconception that black belt= trained and deadly fighter. A 12 year old will not be able to defend himself against a grown man, but he may feel that he can, for no other reason than hes a black belt.

[Ego Assassin]

The coveted Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Black Belt. Try obtaining one of those.

[ElbowTKO]

IMO, not as much as there used to be.

The real value of a belt is to the wearer and the knowledge he or she has learned.

To a starving man a stale moldy cracker would look and taste like a thanksgiving feast.

To a healthy well fed individual it is merely going into the trash.

I belive you well, I know some blackbelts that can't fight for anything.

I took Muay thai for 3 months and I was able to KO a blackbelt in TKD and Karate who has been training for 5 years just to get it (full contact sparing. It is in how you train, you get what you put in.

[malanovaus]

I took Muay thai for 3 months and I was able to KO a blackbelt in TKD and Karate who has been training for 5 years just to get it (full contact sparing. It is in how you train, you get what you put in.

I agree, my instructor has a saying is that one fights how they train, if they train easy than they fight easy, if they train hard, then if they need to fight, they will fight hard. I find more truth in those statements every day.

[White Warlock]

Yeah, that's true. But, of course, having a black belt doesn't make you invincible or something like that.

Indeed, having a black belt doesn't make you anything. You and your experiences make who you are. Any belt is merely presented as an indicator that those within your school find you have reached a comparable level of expertise and understanding in the arts.

The problem here is ... comparable. Bad instructors create bad bbs, and the cycle is continued ad-infinitum. It's no skin off my back because a person who holds a belt and fails to find out whether what he learned is even effective, or whether he learned it sufficiently to be able to utilize it... is one less potential threat to my security.

Now, stated many a time, i hold no belt. Boxers and wrestlers don't hold belts, as do many other arts. All they hold are the wins and losses, or... if they don't compete, the knowledge that they have conditioned themselves. In truth, a belt denotes nothing. In comparison to his fellow man, it states he has knowledge and skills his fellow man does not, but it makes him no more or less than another man (or woman). Unfortunately, some take it as a means to compare to others, when the true goal of the arts is to compare to yourself. Have you bettered yourself? Have you grown? Have you matured and gained a deeper insight into human behavior? Are you able to effectively manage the adrenal surge, better than yesterday?

Mr. Mike mentioned some things a BB means to him:

• 1. I'm the first in my entire family to get one.

I am the first in my family to study the arts to such intensity.

• 2. I told myself that I wouldn't stop until I got one, and countless injuries, jammed fingers, dislocations later...I guess it has something to do with seeing something to completion.

I have not obtained a belt and feel no better or worse for not having obtained one. My injuries have been many, my goal always been unobtainable, and yet my motivation has always been higher than that of those who strived for a belt. The external indicator that your fellow man thinks you've reached some sort of goal is irrelevant to me. Trivial, in fact.

• 3. Countless memories, relationships, experiences along the way.

As well, and i do not attribute it to a belt... but to living.

• 4. Refinement of character...a sort of growing up and finding a purpose...even at my age, I still needed to do that.

As well, and again i do not attribute that to a belt... but to maturing.

• 5. I'm 1% of the 3%

I have absolutely no idea what that means.

• 6. My confidence and self respect is where it has never been.

As well, and again i attribute that to development of self, not to a belt.

• 7. I can teach my art to others, and positively impact the lives of my students the way my instructor has positively impacted my life.

As can i... except...

And here's where the trip-up is. Without a belt, i am without some official certification of my qualifications. Even with people getting belts left and right, my knowledge means nothing to the layman. In my earlier attempts to obtain investors to open up my own school, i was denied because i had no belt... no certification, no officiation, association (well, that and a mediocre credit rating).

Belts do mean something... but not necessarily what many people here are indicating. It means something to the uninitiated... to the lay person. It is a concrete indicator of 'time spent.' In much the same way a man can work 18 years in the computer industry and be passed over by a guy who received his 4 year bachelors degree, so do the belts have an influence on the ignorant.

To the question... yes and no. Despite the jeering and the putdowns, the lay person seeking an education in the martial arts will invariably choose someone officially ranked over someone overly experienced. Within the martial arts community, between practitioners... such is the same.

So lay or nay, to my dismay, the problem does not go... away. It holds less prestige, but still quite sufficient to ensure the continued fallacious perceptions.

Ah well

[Dragn]

I got my first dan when I was just 16. In retrospect I guess I deserved it. I trained with dedication and hard work for 5 years to get it. Compared to my class mates I had superb technique, speed and power. The problem is that the dojo ( and probably the whole organisation) I belonged to wasn't of the best calliber.Compared to what I do now my previous level of ability was pretty sad.

In my present style I'm a green belt (again!) Soon to test for brown. I feel thats a pretty good representation of my ability according to my standards. I can beat most of the black belts in my dojo at present but I still dont think I have neverdie fighting spirit of a full contact karate BB .

I Know when I do wrap a black belt around my waiste again there won't be any question about my skills from anybody.

At one stage I lost interest in ranks.I was just interested in knowledge.

I had seen so many hopeless BBs over the years. But since starting my present style I've regained a certain respect for the belt system when Its applied realistically.

I dont think much of guys with blackbelts unless I know their dojo, or in some casses their style.

eg:BJJ and Kyokushin BBs I regard as being the real deal.

[Dragn]

WW nice post!

I know what you mean. Its always been about the skill rather than the belt for me too.Thats why I never minded donning a white belt time and time over in various dojos over the years. I just wanted to learn.

Lately though in my dojo I'm finding that the belt system does have valuable motivational effects. There is a constant pressure on senior belts to go that much harder than their juniors. We are expected to be able to dominate ranks lower than us in sparring and show unshakeable fighting spirit. We all have days when our motivation isn't exactly booming. The pressure of being a certain rank can give you that extra little push when you're down. A little psychological ploy to get us to train harder.

Some of us need all the motivation we can get:)

[Patrick]

Belts do mean something... but not necessarily what many people here are indicating.

As the definition of a lay person, I think that what belts mean varies with the person. For Mr. Mike, it's a symbolic item that he derives personal pride from because of the dedication that it took to get there. So, it means something to him. It's a sign of accomplishment. Your diploma for graduating school, the first car that you own, the first house that you own, the first dollar you earn from your business... all symbolic items with meaning that varies to some. Some see them and take pride in their accomplishment, of what it took to get there. And some have a different personality. You feel that sense of accomplish without the belt (and I suspect that he might as well), without the symbolic item. Neither is bad, it works both ways. You have to take from it what you want because it's yours, even if you don't have one.

[Mr. Mike]

Thank you Patrick, well said.

White Warlock, everybody is different. I think Funakoshi is the one who said that the definition of Karate lies in the development of character. So for me to say that the finding purpose, and countless experiences is very important, is to lend credibility to Gichin's writing. I could have experienced the 'growing up' and the relationships elsewhere...anybody can, and yes it si a part of growing up...My self development has skyrocketed through the constant pushing myslef harder than I ever thought I could, the endless introspection, and the devotion to the passing of 'my' art to others. In my line of work, as you already noted, you kind of need that cloth diploma hanging around your waist for the sake of credibility. I am a businessperson as well as a practitioner of the arts, so I need to let others know that I am eminently well qualified to teach them, their children, etc. That would happen easier wtiha black belt than just throwing on some workout gear and trying to convince.

ALso, the 1% of the 3% is something we talk about alot in my school...it is great motivation. It goes like this: 3% of the general populace will ever train in any sort of formalized fighting system, be it karate, TKD, whatever. Only 1% of those will see it through to BB. So if you have 100,000 people in your town, figure on 3,000 ever taking any sort of Martial Art. Out of those 3,000 only 30 will follow through to BB. THat means out of 100,000 people, 30 will get their BB. That is a pathetic number, and a great number all at the same time. It's pathetic in that only 30 people out of 100,000 will have the discipline to ever complete most long term endeavors. It's a great number in that it puts BBs in a vast minority...kind of an elite warrrior class.

As BBs we also have a greater responsibility to society. A responibility to stand for what is right, to fight for good, and to protect where needed.

Might sound pretentious, but then maybe so am I for believing in honor.

[ElbowTKO]

I have little respect for blackbelts, simply because as time goes on it is alot easier to obtain one.

The only kinds of belts I respect are the belt systems in Muay Thai and the boxing. Those colored, metal, golden, large black belts you put around your waist and pose with pride. After all you should. They are true ones earned with hard work and training.

Trophies will work fine also