Schools without affliation?

[SenseiMike]

What do you guys think when you see a "stand alone school"?

I opened with no affliation to any federations or organizations because I couldn't find one I thought was right. I'm joining the USA-IFKK as an affliate, but they're a kyokushin group and I teach shotokan.

So far it hasn't bothered my students, but other teachers look down on this I think.

But I train different than most of these organizations allow for, and I don't see the point paying their dues & not getting anything in return.

[Goju_boi]

well theres nothing wrong without belonging to an organization,but when you see a school with an organization , theres a way better chance of it being legit.For example when I was looking for a new school (my last one was a McDojo) , I looked specially for a school with some form of organization in it that's known .Because the last one didn't have any organizations and it turned out to be a horrible school.I don't think it really affects you for the most part because parents and kids aren't really going to care about organizations, but adults and other people that know about martial arts probably are going to think twice about it.

[angus88]

I don't know Goju Boi, if you think about it, what do organizations do except take your money and allow you to go to certain "tournaments"?

Personally, the proof is in the pudding. If an experienced martial artist takes a look at your school, hopefully his judgment will be based on what he sees out of your students, not what organizations are up on the wall.

I think it was a coincidence that the "horrible" school didn't have any affiliations. Sorry I'm so opinionated on this subject, but it seems like every dojo I've seen has some kind of certification system for the black belts and the school is affiliated with everything under the sun, but the affiliations don't teach your students, you do.

[Pacificshore]

Hmm..sometimes being an independent isn't such a bad idea. So long as what you are providing is meeting the needs of your students and their parents. In this case, Karate. I can tell you from experience, that there is nothing worse than paying organizational dues, and then getting very little if anything in return. Especially when you defray some of the dues onto your students.

My last point, what constitutes "legit"? I mean that is just as subjective as anything else out in the world. Just because you are a member of whatever organization, and provide poor karate doesn't make you "legit" in my mind

[lgm]

What do you guys think when you see a "stand alone school"?

In the contemporary karate world that we live in, a "stand alone school" may lack the credibility and popularity that affiliated schools have. You've got to be a well-known personality by your own right/name and achievement in karate to be able to compete equitably if you are a stand-alone rather than affiliated with a nationally known or better still an internationally known karate organization.

I opened with no affliation to any federations or organizations because I couldn't find one I thought was right. I'm joining the USA-IFKK as an affliate, but they're a kyokushin group and I teach shotokan.

So far it hasn't bothered my students, but other teachers look down on this I think.

But I train different than most of these organizations allow for, and I don't see the point paying their dues & not getting anything in return.

If you have to affiliate, I suggest you affiliate with a Shotokan organization to avoid political and technical conflicts with the mother organization. Besides, as you must be feeling right now, you may not be feeling like you belong, right?

[shotochem]

To me personally the organization doesn't matter.

It is the instructor that matters to me. If he or she is teaching top quality MA and I enjoy learning from him, I could care less what hes' affiliated with.

To some this is blasphamy. Some people just need a piece of paper with an organizational seal of approval to feel worthy and considered legit.

IME, no all organizations are top quality and standards may and usually are quite subjective and often highly political.

Good luck to you Mike. If you feel you are producing a quality product and your students are happy I don't see it being much of an issue. If you feel it can benefit you and your students then find a worthwhile org. and see what they can do for YOU.

[angus88]

Something else to consider Mike - you're not going to make your money on students who are so-called martial arts experts that actually know anything about organizations or affiliations.

Just like your current students, the average person on the street that might wander in to your place doesn't know and doesn't care. And parents looking for schools to put their kids in aren't going to know anything about that stuff. If they want to see your credentials, tell them to watch a class.

[Skeptic 2004]

My school has no official organizational affiliation. It doesn't give out rank or certificates for that matter. The instructor is of the opinion that your karate should speak for itself. His speaks VOLUMES, and I'm guessing that's why he's been able to teach for 30+ years without organizational affiliation and still attract students. His students' karate also speak VOLUMES, and some of them are just as well known as he is.

Lgm is in a sense correct in that you have to be a well known personality or have achieved something great in karate in order to compete with affiliated schools. If you're not affiliated, then you have to have your own branding power through strong karate or at least pulling off some sort of stunt.

Having your own karate branding power I think is more effective than the branding power of a large organization. People remember individuals more than they remember the bureaucracies. In Hawai'i, Bobby Lowe isn't well known because he's a member of a Kyokushin Karate association (I don't even know what the name of the Kyokushin organization is anyway); he's well known because he's THE most senior living student of Mas Oyama - he is THE dai-sempai of Kyokushin Karate in the world. And even though he's pushing 80, his karate is still better than most.

Heck, it even spills over into other things. When my instructor was involved with the corporate world, he got his promotion to executive vice president for marketing not because of his sales or marketing skills (he had no previous experience), but because EVERYONE in town knew he taught karate. The fact that he worked at the company was enough for them to sell their product locally successfully.

[mrbigmuscles]

affiliations mean nothing. the dojo i attend is run at no profit, probably at a loss, to the instructors. they do not get paid at all, they teach because they love the art. i appreciate the positive sides to having large organizations of karate schools, but in the end, all that matters is the quality of karate taught in the dojo YOU attend. imho

[Willannem]

I look for lineage rather than affiliations. Affilliations just mean you are in good with a group of individuals.