Tang Soo Do

[Scott James]

TSD is directly based off Shotokan.

Just look at the original kata of TSD will show you that.

No, not every martial art is based off Shotokan, which is based off Shito and Shorin Ryu. (Granted all the Japanese/Okinawan masters of the late 19th century all influenced eachother); However, Modern Korean Striking arts are. hwang did claim to have trained in Takeyon as a child, but that has never been corroborate. At most it explains the additions of high kicks and spinning techniques, but it does not explain the other glaring similarities with Shotokan Karate.

Bushido is correct in his historical analysis. Yes, the style has evolved, and as with all Korean styles today, is uniquely Korean now.

[tsdkid]

you name one japines instructor hwang kee had.you cant there is not one.once agen we share certin forms i wont argue that.not only that the forms werent even in tsd origanoly.Thay were aded by gm hwang kee well after his art was formed.Thay were only aded to incress sytudents.because people easly identifid theam.Our art is and never was based of of shotokan.I know this because my insturtor helped bring tsd over to the us.not only that he traned under gm hwang kee gm jc shin gm yu and gm yi.was cofounder of wts and all american tsd assios.so dont tell me what you dont know.

[danbong]

So you are saying that in the early post WWII time period Koreans would not study a completely Korean martial art until it added movements to make it look Japanese?

[Scott James]

TSDKID,

Hwang added new forms in the 60's. The original forms that are taken from Shotokan were incorporated into the style in the 40's. They were taken from a book, admittedly by Hwang.

Hwang never admitted to studying a Japanese art. However, the similarities are far to great to ignore. Like many Koreans in the Post Occupation period, he likely left out certain details in order to position his art to be more "Korean". Something all the Kwans did after the Korean War. It's something everyone did in Korean to take back their Culture after The Korean war.

Rather than tell me what I don't know, please elaborate on what you do know.

[DragonMike]

I don't think you can deny the Japanese influnse, or the Chinese influence for that matter on Tang Soo Do.

The hand techniques and the stances are very remenicent of shootokan, and the open handed circular hand motions of the knife hand blocks are very Chinese.

Of course most styles have been influenced by others due to the geographic proximity and all of the wars.

[bushido_man96]

you name one japines instructor hwang kee had.you cant there is not one.once agen we share certin forms i wont argue that.not only that the forms werent even in tsd origanoly.Thay were aded by gm hwang kee well after his art was formed.Thay were only aded to incress sytudents.because people easly identifid theam.Our art is and never was based of of shotokan.I know this because my insturtor helped bring tsd over to the us.not only that he traned under gm hwang kee gm jc shin gm yu and gm yi.was cofounder of wts and all american tsd assios.so dont tell me what you dont know.

I was wondering, could you tell me who GM Hwang Kee had for an instructor, and how he learned his orginal style?

[aigaios]

That is a good question. I'm considering trying some Tang Soo Do, and that would be a bit of information I would like to know.

[Scott James]

It's funny, I am here in Korea this week and It so hard to find anyone who has even heard of TSD.

I was at the Kukkiwon yesterday at one of the shops having a conversation with a guy, who kept insisting that TSD does not come from Korea. I was taken aback only because While few people here even bring up TSD I have never had someone flat out say it wasn't Korean.

While I agree it's Orgins are not Korean, I cannot agree that it is not influenced by Korea.

Aigaios,

Hwang never says he learned any Japanese art during the occupation. He claims to have leanred form Chinese master living in Manchuria while fleeing Korea.

While I cannot confirm anything Hwang says, or deny it either, it's hard to really discount the similarities in styles. I suspect he, like other Koreans during the occupation learned some form of Japanese Karate. If so, that information died with him and we will never know who he really learned from.

[Kill Jill]

I'll add one thing (or two) :

The 'Tang' in 'Tang Soo Do' comes from 'Tang' as in 'Tang dynasty'/China. As the Japanese occupied Korea, they tried to modify words of Chinese origin out of nationalistic purposes; thus the name of Tang Soo Do was changed to Kong Soo Do. Therefore, it may explain why some Koreans might not initially recognise the name of Tang Soo Do.

What'd ya think about that explanation, Scott?

Also, I have problems sometimes just in getting Koreans to recognize my pronunciation of certain words. I was talking about 'Yudo'(Judo) the other night to someone, and it took them about 15 minutes to understand what I was talking about!

[Scott James]

Considering that TSD, and MDK were developed during the occupation and formalize just after the occupation I would need to disagree. It's likely the name was changed to eliminate foreign connotations, much like it is now called Soo Bahk Do. I have seen Kong Soo Do and I have Dang Soo Do used.