Tang Soo Do

[tsdkid]

First off the forms are of okinowin origin.Not japines so thay were not borrowd from shotokan.Second shotokan also came by theys forms from okinowah.Also tsd does not resemble shotokan.tsd is a hard soft style were shotokan is on a liner basis.Shotokan uses much more shorter stances.Pluse the use of hips is completly difrent.We just got a student in our studio who has 3 years of shotokan under him.And nothing he does is even similer to what we do.

[Scott James]

Well Considering that Karate itself comes from Okinawa, yes you can say that the Shotokan forms are of Okinawan origin. However, the forms are taken from Shotokan. GM Hwang admits this in his writings (he refers to a book on Japanese kata). Even the TKD forms follow many of the same patterns and combinations (ITF in particular).

I did not say that TSD does not have stylistic differences from Japanese arts. It does. For example stances, most Japanese styles use much shorter stances. But it does not change the fact that The Original TSD forms are taken from Shotokan. GM Hwang did change forms later.

I will have to disagree, that TSD is a hard soft style. Well, in a way, yes it is, but soft elements of the style are not introduced until the advanced kata. For the most part, kata are hard and linear until the BB kata.

Compare that to The Japanese Kata (not shotokan versions) were soft elements are introduced at intermediate kata.

Now with that said, may I ask what you study tsdkid? Does your schoold consider itself Soo Bahk Do? Is it affilated with an international organization?

The reason I ask is because TSD has changed over the years. Some schools, like mine, look more like TSD of the past. As I said before GM Hwang did change elements in the art over time.

[tsdkid]

I trane under grandmaster clingan.We conseder our art the moodukwan style of tangsoodo.I dont know were youi train.But were taught hard soft tecniqes from day one.I will agree that with the excpitn of kee cho young sambo.you dont seen a definent soft patter until bb levils.But just because we share some of the same forms .doest not mean are style is based off of shotokan.For one in tsd our kicks are done completly difrent than any other art.not even tkd has the same styles of kicks we do.Well at lest not most tkd any way.Number two.In tsd there is much more self defince and grapling than in shotokan.At lest the shotokan i have seen.

As for tsd beang changed.I am taught the same style of tsd as my instructer was taught.He as preservd tradishonal tsd.Probly more so than most other insturctors.Who brought it over froum korea.There are a few others but I would like to think.I am beang taught tsd as it was ment to be.

[bushido_man96]

Some of the differences in the stances comes from the people who took the art, and then modified it to suit their needs. Shorter peoples tended to shorten their stances and use less knee bend, in order to look taller, or to fight taller.

The way the TSD and TKD forms look now, compared to the older Okinawan styles is a wonderful display of the evolution of these martial styles. One could learn a lot of why and how different peoples from different regions did things the way they did them. The climate, and terrain, and other factors such as these all contribute to why things end up being done the way they are done. There is always a deeper meaning than "because that's the way my instructor did it."

[aefibird]

One could learn a lot of why and how different peoples from different regions did things the way they did them. The climate, and terrain, and other factors such as these all contribute to why things end up being done the way they are done. There is always a deeper meaning than "because that's the way my instructor did it."

Differences in climate and terrain and the like are one of the reasons why Northern and Southern Chinese styles are (often) different from one another.

Good post Bushido man.

[Scott James]

Very true on the stances.

The longer stances are alleged to be an adaptation to the hilly, mountainous terrain of Korea.

GM Hwang considered longer stances more stable and emphasized them in his art. "The lower your center of gravity, the more stable your stance".

TSDkid, If TSD is not related to Shotokan, why are there so many similarities? Or do you consider TSD to be a total Korean Art with no outside influence?

[bushido_man96]

I firmly believe that the arts of TSD and TKD do not have any foundations in any ancient Korean fighting styles. There just isn't enough evidence out there to substantiate it.

A few years ago I remember reading a section in Dragon Times about how the history of TKD was embelished, and that it is indeed one of the newest forms of martial arts created.

When I read this information, it kind of upset me that some of my previous instructors had filled me up with that stuff. Oh, well, I guess. It really is OK that TKD and TSD don't have ancient roots. That fact does not demean their effectiveness as martial styles.

[tsdkid]

First off every martal art has similaritys.But i guess thay must be all off shots of shotokan which is inist self.And off shoot of goju.Never said tsd was a pure korean art ever.I said tsd was not based off of shotokan.with that said it is consederd karate. there for will look like other styles of karate.chan fan kempo also uses a front stance and linear tecniqes.But i guess thats and off shot of shotokan.As for tsd not haveing acent roots.Your rong and any tsd master or martila arts historian will easly dis prove that staement.Just because tsd doesent look like ancent teak kwon does not mean.It doesent have roots in it.Thay would be like saying kung fu doesnt look like ancent shalen kung fu there for its not.give me a brake.

[bushido_man96]

First off every martal art has similaritys.But i guess thay must be all off shots of shotokan which is inist self.And off shoot of goju.Never said tsd was a pure korean art ever.I said tsd was not based off of shotokan.with that said it is consederd karate. there for will look like other styles of karate.chan fan kempo also uses a front stance and linear tecniqes.But i guess thats and off shot of shotokan.As for tsd not haveing acent roots.Your rong and any tsd master or martila arts historian will easly dis prove that staement.Just because tsd doesent look like ancent teak kwon does not mean.It doesent have roots in it.Thay would be like saying kung fu doesnt look like ancent shalen kung fu there for its not.give me a brake.

Martial arts as a whole, including su bak and taek yon, vanished from the Korean penninsula as a whole during the Yi dynasty and subsequently from the Japanese occupation. Their influence in TKD, and probably TSD, is irrevelant.

The Chung do kwan do-jang opened in Seoul in 1944. Between '44 and '46 five more kwans were opened. According to the Dragon Times article, these six original Korean instructors had attended Japanese universities and some were soldiers in the Japanese Imperial army. They learned Karate in Japan, and returned with dan ranking, and began to teach, adding and modifying as they saw fit.

Korea was incorporated into the Chinese Empire in 108 BC, and the advent of the Chinese culture accelerated Korean cultural development (again, according to Dragon Times). The "ancient" Korean styles are most likely considered early forms of Chinese boxing.

[Fosgate]

Who knows of any Tang Soo Do or Soo Bahk Do schools in the Memphis, TN area?