Shotkans effectiveness

[Goju_boi]

saishu ryu looks pretty good.I especially like the sparring you guys have were u can actually grapple.Is it full contact or just points.Maybe even both?

[saishu]

saishu ryu looks pretty good.I especially like the sparring you guys have were u can actually grapple.Is it full contact or just points.Maybe even both?

The kumite that we practice is pretty much full contact until submission or knock out. The standing portion of the match reminds me of Kyokushinkai, but as soon as someone gets ahold of you it's very judoish. There is a time limit of 10 minutes, and if no one wins in that much time it goes to points. The way the points work is that there are 2 judges (usually a senior student and Sensei Whitsell), they stand on the sides and have a number clicker. Everytime they see aka make contact one of them clicks and gives the point and same with shiro. The match doesnt stop though when points are made, just keeps going. When it goes to the ground it's till submission. If times runs out the fight goes to who got the most hits before the fight went to the ground.

If you knock your opponent out before you go to the ground then you win. Otherwise you have to make them submit.

We haven't done much full speed kumite since I've been going, but a few weeks ago Doshu showed up and gave a demo of kumite with Sensei Whitsell. It was absolutely amazing, Doshu had him down and made him submit in about 20 seconds.

A lot of the time when we do kumite it is in slow motion with Sensei Whitsell overtop of us giving direction, and asking us questions like if you stike this person with your left fist what do you have, or if you pull his sleeve here watch how he will roll off of you.

All and all I have been very impressed with Saishu Ryu, and i'm happy I made the switch.

[Goju_boi]

so if u incorporate both striking and grappling in your kumite, what kind of gloves do u guys use?

[y2_sub]

Probably MMA gloves , by the way are hand strikes to the head allowed ?? And do u guys sponsore randori kumite tournaments ??

[saishu]

Probably MMA gloves , by the way are hand strikes to the head allowed ?? And do u guys sponsore randori kumite tournaments ??

We don't use gloves or gear of any kind other than a mouthpeice and a cup. Head shots are fine, open handed or closed hands.

I know Sensei Whitsell is wanting to hold a tournament before much longer, just trying to get enough people together for one. It's kind of hard because right now Saishu Ryu is only being taught in about 20 places throughout the world, and 99% of the people involved are military. I remember Doshu Mertz saying that there were only like 5 civilians currently in the system.

[Goju_boi]

why so little civilians?

[MenteReligieuse]

About Kyokushin, please enlighten me.

What I read and seen on videos about it left me on my appetite. Tournament rules seem to ban punches to the head area. Which leaves the competitioners with guards at chest level even when they are face to face, which I find totally unrealistic, it's removing a whole dimension to fighting. No wonder we get to see MT beating kyokushin, hand strikes to a conditioned body will have minimal effect while being unprepared for coming punches and elbows to the face. Now the kicks might be great, I don't know. (and yes I know kicks can be dealt to the head)

Hopefully more "traditional" kyokushin has no such rule, and some competions allow punches to the face (seriously, wear a head protector if you have to).

[Meguro]

About Kyokushin, please enlighten me. . .

No wonder we get to see MT beating kyokushin, hand strikes to a conditioned body will have minimal effect while being unprepared for coming punches and elbows to the face.

Hopefully more "traditional" kyokushin has no such rule, and some competions allow punches to the face (seriously, wear a head protector if you have to).

Kyokushin tournament fighters train to fight under kyokushin tournament rules. In a mixed martial arts envronment, some will be at a disadvnatage if they stick to kyokushin rules and the bad habits they might have acquired. Muay Thai boxers fighting under kyokushin rules would have no advantage over kyokushin karateka.

Less"traditional" styles of Kyokushin lead to K-1. Kyokushin is pure knockdown rules.

[MenteReligieuse]

...but they are fighting....with strikes....and no punches to the face...I don't see the point or logic...

[saishu]

why so little civilians?

I'm going to be honest with you. I have seen more injuries in 6 months of Saishu Ryu than I have in the 15+ years that I have been training.

Doshu Mertz has a belief that when you train you have to make it as real as possible. So that is how we train. We have had a few civilians stop by, but most of them quit after the first time they are really hit or really thrown. I know if I wasn't in the military and going to Iraq soon I would have quit as well. Every training session is more brutal than the next.

I have heard stories from Sensei Whitsell about Doshu Mertz when he got back from doing 2 tours in Iraq. I have heard that his classes were a bloodbath. He once got mad at a SFC for not paying close enough attention and kicked the dude one time and shattered his hip and left him on the floor for the rest of the class.

Saishu Ryu is no joke and it's whole purpose is for military combat readiness. The few civilians that I have seen have all been police force types and most of them dont stick around for more than one or two classes.

If you'd like to talk more offline about this, just send me a private message, i'd be happy to answer anything about what we've been doing or what i've seen so far.

Tomo