The best answer to the "how do I beat this style"

[White Warlock]

another good post Sauzin. you're on a roll.

[Tommy_P]

Taking Okinawan/Japanese systems as an example we can see a common thread running through them regardless of style. If you look deep enough and understand what your system is trying to teach it can be broken down to certain fighting principles.

For example, instead of looking at a particular block as defending against a punch, we might look at the underlying principle of the defense and instead of against a punch, we might apply it against any incoming attack regardless of what it is. It may be a punch, a grab attempt, a poke or choke or whatever. We can do the same for stances and footwork and by examining the various kata and their history.

By understanding some of these principles and practicing them in varied defenses (against resisting opponents) we become better able to adapt to a given situation.

The bottom line in dealing with different fighters and/or different styles IMO is knowledge and adaptability

Tommy

[Sauzin]

To Sauzin: Believe me when I say being PC is the last thing I care about being. All I know is what I've seen. And I've yet to see a style so perfect that a person is unbeatable by virtue of style alone. Of course style can make a difference to an extent, but I've seen people practice very dangerous martial arts moves that you can tell by watching them they'd never be able to do if push came to shove. In other words, you can't hide behind your style and pretend to be superman just because on paper it looks like an unbeatable style. Does that make sense?

Like I said, two sides of the same coin. You have to take into account both the individual, or individuals and the style.

And when you say "styles affect how you progress, in what manner, etc." - again, I would question the school itself. You can have two kung fu schools of the same "style" that progress in very different ways. I agree - method and manner both count, I just wouldn't attribute that automatically to style.

For the purposes of discussion lets say by style I am referring to the curriculum and by individual I am referring to whomever is learning or teaching it. Admittedly both affect the other.

[angus88]

Well if by style you mean curriculum, that pretty much changes the whole thing! And in that case I agree - curriculum combined with individual - absolutely.

[SenseiMike]

I don't buy the economics issue, I understand it, but it shouldn't affect the quality of the training.

example of my own school:

Rent: $400 a month

Electric: $25 a month aprox

Students @ the moment: 7 (since July 15th when I opened)

Monthly dues: $65

Testing fee: $10

Hours 7-8:30pm monday-sunday (every night, 7 days a week) 11-12:30

saturday morning

Phone: My cell phone

Websie: $5 a month

Advertising: blood, sweat, tears, & 6 cent copies at office depot.

Instructor: Just me

Income: $455 a month

How I pay my other bills: I wait tables 5 days a week @ a bbq joint.

Downside: school only 500 sq feet, but class size is limted in advance to 12 students per class (once i get 12 )

Upside: I sell my school truthfully; "A lot smaller & a little bit uglier than the competition, but the best game in town for a LOT less money"

I can drag my butt in there 7 days a week and teach classes, after working a full day at my real job, & still run a fighting school, for $100 a month less than the other guys. My students are arguably the best fighters in the city because of how we train. I just played my cards right and searched the city high and low for a building that was right for me, did all the work my self, didn't quit working my day job, and spent my free time building the school. If i can do it (and I'm really quite lazy) then so can anyone else.

You don't have to sell out, you just have to being willing to put in the effort & stay true to the art. Most teachers don't, & thus their students can't fight their way out of a paper bag.

[angus88]

Wow SenseiMike - your electric bills are cheap!

[Jane Doe]

You can make a good living running a school without compromising the integrity of the system itself. There are a few schools that still do that. .

Agreed! There are many top quality instructor who have no need of watering down their art, appeasing others, having wacky belt systems and other nonsense who are making a decent living at teaching MA. The difference between them and those that fail are usually the fact that they actually are good businessmen and treat the business end like the business end and the art end as the art end - never the twain meeting.

Usually it is the ones that fail who are quick to lable those that succeed as McDojo's or compromising the art because they can't acknowledge their own glaring inadequacies or ability to retain students.

[lgm]

I don't care who you are or what style you take, it's been my experience that the only person who really beats you is yourself.

You can beat anyone if you fight both hard & smart enough. You just have to stay aware of your targets weaknesses while defending your own.

That's it, no secrets, no magic, a TKD guy can beat a BJJ guy if he fights well enough, style doesn't matter on bit.

If a TKD guy can beat a BJJ guy or vice-versa, you can claim he fought "both hard & smart enough and he was aware of his target weakness while defending his own", but the reason why you called him TKD or BJJ guy is because of his style of fighting. Therefore, the style the guy used must be an important factor in fighting and winning or losing. Whether it is the most important factor among many factors is another question and more difficult to answer.

If you have to study all the factors that can possibly affect the outcome of a fight between two opponents, you can classify them only into two: (1) subjective/internal factors or subject variables, and (2) the context or external variables. The subjective factors will include physique, skill, experience, gender, intelligence, motivation, learned style, etc., while external variables are standing or on the ground, armed or unarmed, ring or street, etc.

There simply are too many internal and external factors to consider and weigh in every single encounter to be able to predict accurately who will win. Styles of fighting, though not inoperable or irrelevant in predicting fight encounters, by themselves will not singlehandedly affect the particular outcome of any given fight. Many factors are involved and they often interact to tip in the outcome of such a fight.

[ivette_green]

Saying that a guy with a gun could beat the highest level of black belt is a self-defeating attitude. Nobody trains to dodge bullets.

[ravenzoom]

IGM wrote:

If a TKD guy can beat a BJJ guy or vice-versa, you can claim he fought "both hard & smart enough and he was aware of his target weakness while defending his own", but the reason why you called him TKD or BJJ guy is because of his style of fighting. Therefore, the style the guy used must be an important factor in fighting and winning or losing. Whether it is the most important factor among many factors is another question and more difficult to answer.

If you have to study all the factors that can possibly affect the outcome of a fight between two opponents, you can classify them only into two: (1) subjective/internal factors or subject variables, and (2) the context or external variables. The subjective factors will include physique, skill, experience, gender, intelligence, motivation, learned style, etc., while external variables are standing or on the ground, armed or unarmed, ring or street, etc.

There simply are too many internal and external factors to consider and weigh in every single encounter to be able to predict accurately who will win. Styles of fighting, though not inoperable or irrelevant in predicting fight encounters, by themselves will not singlehandedly affect the particular outcome of any given fight. Many factors are involved and they often interact to tip in the outcome of such a fight

I agree with your post. But like i mentioned earlier, styles also do need to be taken into consideration.