The Mount and the back! Is it harder to maintain than side?

[Fat Donkey]

Been doing a lot of sparring lately with fair to good grapplers and it seems to me that securing the choke from the back or maintaining a mount long enough to secure a submission, is actually more difficult than doing it from the side or half-guard I mean everyone is trained in BJJ so either they get out fairly quickly or its ten minutes of trying to sink the choke which equals extremely tired arms. I fighting all different sizes and weights and I can never seem to utilise the two most dominant positions there r. Even when someone secures the back or mount on me I usually have an easier time getting out of it compared to sidemount or guard. Any suggestions on how I can "finish" from these positions? Should I Ignore them in competition since they seem to be my weakest positions? Any advice would be welcome

[AndrewGreen]

Depends on whether you are doing BJJ, Submission grapplling or MMA.

Whenever you are on the top, you have the dominant position, if you are loosing it easily your posture likely needs work. But if you tell us what exactly you are trying to do we might be able to give better advice

[karatekid1975]

I did a little grappling with my honey tonight. I mounted him on the back and applied the choke easy (then again, he's a rookie at grappling). But even in Judo, I found it easy. But that was against girls my size. I have never fought someone from BJJ. So, I kind of can't help you there.

[supergalactic]

The mount is not an easy position, it take a lot of work to be proficient from it. You could go for an americana and if they pull away go with it and swing into an armbar. It also depends on Gi or no Gi.

[SubGrappler]

Many people are starting to jump on the wagon in preferring side control to the mount ever since Bas Rutten said that he thinks side control is better.

Its much easier to set up your submissions from the mount and back than it is from cross side or half guard. To put it simply- you need to practice your mount more.

Take a comparison between fighters- Fedor Emilianenko and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. Both have great submission skills and both have fought Mirko Cro Cop who was desribed as being at a blue belt level. Fedor could get side control, but was never able to do anything from there in his fight. Nogueira gets the mount, and within a minute finishes the fight.

Theres a lot more pressure on your opponent when you have him mounted or have his back. You also have far better striking options from there. Striking from the cross side isnt as efficient, since you really need to hold your opponent with your hands (your legs do this from the mount). There is the option of knee strikes from side control, but I believe they give too much a chance for the bottom guy to escape to guard or back to the feet.

The reason why you'll find yourself having more success in cross side and half guard than mount or back is because:

1. you're fighting from those positions much more often and

2. you havent practiced your mount and back mount enough.

I myself am just starting to get a good mount- its difficult to do when you're a beginner, because you have to get there in the first place before you can start to work it when you're training. When you're a beginner, you're not going to be mounting hardly anyone, whereas a more experienced guy can easily get himself to a position that he wants to work on (mount or back mount for example).. With as little time you're going to spend fighting from the mount and back when you're a beginner, its no wonder you're going to be losing the position often- you didnt quit throwing armbars because you couldnt make it work the first couple times you tried it did you?

[Fat Donkey]

Last nights UFC live was a perfect example of what I mean. Evan Tanner and Kopchek??? both had their opponents in either the mount or from the back and were unable to finish. Loiseau's defence against the choke (and strikes) is what I seem to encounter alot. As for what I'm trying to do I train primarily BJJ along with wrestling, MMA, dumog and we have an upcoming submission grappling tournament coming up.

[TJS]

In straight grappling I find it easier to work from sidemount..especially against larger opponets.

In a real fight Mount or back mount would be best..strikes open things up pretty qyuckly.

[CagedWarrior]

tjs said it

[Adonis]

I like mount but I see more submission options in side control of course thats with the gi. Plus quicker transitions between knee on stomach, scarf hold, and north south can be accomplished from side mount or side control.

Either way for your mount work on using your hooks, applying your waight and careful on how you do your weight distribution. Head control, and the triangle (3 points of contact theory) to help with your base.

[SubGrappler]

Last nights UFC live was a perfect example of what I mean. Evan Tanner and Kopchek??? both had their opponents in either the mount or from the back and were unable to finish. Loiseau's defence against the choke (and strikes) is what I seem to encounter alot.

When most people prepare for a fight, they often train for the worst, not the best. This means you'll often see guys training to escape the mount and back mount more often than you'll see them working their finishing skills from those positions (and for good reason too). If you mess up when you have the mount, it sucks, but it never really costs you in a fight- if you mess up when you're defending the mount, you lose.