How important is Ch'i?

[elbows_and_knees]

yet, when practiced in Japan, they refered to controlled chi as "Hado" which are vibrations we produce

I'm not sure to what extent Hado really works, however, there are a number of books that explain certain experiments that verify that Hado exists, but not in a large scale as cartoons would like it to appear or legend makes it out to be

more research is needed

The chinese do the same thing. If you train a longfist style or various southern styles, you will learn different types of kiai. there is ha, hey, ho, ooh, oy and a few others (these are spelled phonetically, to illustrate the sound beoung made). Supposedly, each tone corresponds to a different area of the body and creates a different force / has a different purpose.

That said, the jury is out on qi. WW gave a good explanation. Others will tell you that qi is really nothing more than proper body mechanics. I think that these days we tend to over-romanticize it and make it out to be something that it is not.

[Kajukenbopr]

yet, when practiced in Japan, they refered to controlled chi as "Hado" which are vibrations we produce

I'm not sure to what extent Hado really works, however, there are a number of books that explain certain experiments that verify that Hado exists, but not in a large scale as cartoons would like it to appear or legend makes it out to be

more research is needed

The chinese do the same thing. If you train a longfist style or various southern styles, you will learn different types of kiai. there is ha, hey, ho, ooh, oy and a few others (these are spelled phonetically, to illustrate the sound beoung made). Supposedly, each tone corresponds to a different area of the body and creates a different force / has a different purpose.

That said, the jury is out on qi. WW gave a good explanation. Others will tell you that qi is really nothing more than proper body mechanics. I think that these days we tend to over-romanticize it and make it out to be something that it is not.

very interesting

[KarateKid6781]

sounds intense

[Traditional-Fist]

Just a few quick points about Chi:

Chi is real BUT it has to be experienced and not speculated on. Those who believe that abilities and functions attributed to chi by reputable masters, are an over romanticization are usually those who have not delligently practiced or do not know anyone who has delligently practiced Chi kung. This is usually because nowadays there seem to be relatively few Kung Fu instructors who are competent in this area.

Also chi kung practice requires a lot of patience specially when one is dealing with something that is intangible in the beginning as well as being strange in concept to our western minds

Many REAL kung fu instructors (depending on the style) will tell you that you will not get near your full potential in kung fu without the diligente chi kung practise.

This is the case for the lineage of Wing Chun that I practice and also for related schools, such as the southern Praying Mantis and other internal styles.

Even many so called external styles have chi kung practice incorporated into their curriculum.

Chi is not just good posture and correct body mechanics. However, to make your chi flow you will need those aspects in your training.

With regular chi kung practice your chi will flow constantly and you will not need to summon it. It will be there when you need it.

Lastly, it is not fair to dismiss chi as mambo jumbo. It forms the basis for the kung fu (Shaolin, Wudang, etc.) systems, which are arguably the richest and most profound martial arts on the face of this planet [i have not even mentioned Chi's significance in traditional chinese medicine].

[MenteReligieuse]

Listen to White Warlock...he knows stuff

Aye the most important aspect of chi is breath. The first thing you are taught when meditating doing any exercises is to concentrate on your breath. You also often hear to exhale when you strike or do any sort of intense (forcefull) movenent (like striking). Often when doing hard exercises (or actually fighting), one forgets to continue breathing deeply and regularly, resulting in loss of energy. Now my chemisty class is a bit far, but if I remember correctly breathing leads to combustion of the oxygen at a cellular level, and combustion produces, or liberates, energy.

Your muscles require intensive ammounts of oxygen (energy) when doing anything physicaly challenging.

Chi is energy. But of course it is also way more than that. The rest I cannot explain.

Many REAL kung fu instructors (depending on the style) will tell you that you will not get near your full potential in kung fu without the diligente chi kung practise.

¨

Shaolin masters often say your kung-fu will only go as far as your spirit. It's an arguable statement, but enlightning none the less.

[shogeri]

In order to use qi, one must cultivate it. Study it, and practice with it. Taijiquan, Push Hands, and zhan zhuang (standing posture - qigong), are the primary components of understanding the flow of qi within you.

When doing 3 circle standing qiqong, for example;

Your knees are slightly bent, eyes are opened, tongue is touching the roof of your mouth, behind your upper front teeth. You are to be relaxed. You concentrate on standing there, focusing on relaxing your body, and clearing your mind of unnecessary thoughts. Your arms are up and out. Elbows slightly bent. Palms out before you. Fingers relaxed. Hands about 6 inches apart.

You should be able to fit a fist beneath the armpit. This lowers the bridge, allowing the qi to flow properly. You should be in a comfortable stance, about shoulder width apart, with feet pointing forward. Breathe in and out regularly - deeply, and fully.

Your gaze, perhaps slightly downward, is just between your fingers. Your back is straight, but your shoulders are slightly sunk forward and down in a comfortable position. In other words do not hold your shoulders up, as practiced in kung fu and or karate. It is as if you are a puppet, and someone has a string attached to both your head and spine, slightly pulling them upward.

If you are in pain, or something is not feeling right (such as nausea, headaches, stomach pain), or you do not get to the phase of recognition, then your qigong is wrong. Stop doing the qiqong.

Send a video clip to a person who can correct you, or visit a taijiquan instructor, if one is nearby.

This particular qigong (zhanzhuang) works by applying the concept of intent over physical force to improve all the physiological organs and their functions. Although one is standing in a physically still position, the intent is working very hard inside the body to harmonize all physiological organs with this particular position so that all parts of the body are contributing to maintain this static position. There are three steps of Zhan Zhuang training associated with martial art's high demand: recognition, harmony, and application.

As you progress your legs might be sore, and your body might shake. This increases over time, but with enough proper practice, it subsides, as the qi begins to flow properly. You will feel a difference within your body. This is the recognition phase.

Sometime after, you will have connected your intent (Yi)j with your Qi. Your mind is then in sync with the qi in your body, at least on the lowest of levels. This could take up to a year to fully reap the benefits of. That is if you are least standing in it for up to an hour by then. This is the harmony phase of your qigong training.

Then comes the application. In order to cultivate your fighting application of qi, you must practice push hands. This allows you to strengthen your body in a manner fitting to qi cultivation. It increases your sensitivity to the balance of others, and to their application of qi as well. After a year of push hands, you should be in the good, at least in the beginner sense of the term.

It would be good to practice taijiquan long form as well.

Waist movements should involve qi buildup. After one has learned how to cultivate it, they practice placing it where it needs to be in order to effectively strike using it. Coiling and silk reeling are things that help in doing this, as does the Taiji form.

This waist movement accompanied with a strike, while in sung, with a relaxed body is called anjing. This would be the lowest outward physical application. The more internal it becomes, it evolves into fajing, and over time cultivates into an explosive means by which to disrupt your opponent, not just eternally, but internally. This is most true, when striking with fajing to given pressure points.

This is why you might see Chinese Boxers, and Taijiquan (et al) practitioners, slightly shaking when doing certain strikes. These are also called fajing shakes, meaning they have internalized their methods.

Perhaps in some way this is 'hado' in japanese, but I am not sure, since I have yet to see an externalist actually have their qi in proper order, especially without actually cultivating it in some way.

Is all of this related to "proper body mechanics"?

Certainly. All of this, is again reinforced with the following:

When the body is in proper alignment. When the Yi lead Qi. Which only happens after one has obtained proper qi flow. When both mind and body are balanced both separately and as one, and such is represented through proper outward physical motion, then indeed qi is then found to be just as person needs it to be within themselves.

Those are my own thoughts on this.

[sarkeizen]

How important is the implimintation of Ch'i into your hits when you are fighting?

Any fruitful discussion requires definition!

The problem I find with most discussions about Qi, or Qi-gong is that they lack any useful definition. For example, if Qi just was a blanket label applied for things that people didn't understand the mechanism for or couldn't see. Then to treat it as some kind of unified concept that can be applied to activity "X" isn't going to be productive.

In fact, treating it like some kind of unified concept e.g. "just add Chi!" betrays just how little we know about the term. The concept wasn't even unified among the Chinese - Taoists, Neo-Confucians all had different ideas about the subject. So how would you even know what to add?

My own experience? I've yet to see anybody provide any significant evidence that in a fight whatever they call "Qi" can do anything beyond simple physics. So my personal advice would be "study physics instead! "

[White Warlock]

I'm not a chi/qi advocate, but there's plenty more associated to it than merely physics. There is also visualization, mental determination, and a few other things that fall outside the realm of physics and inside the realm of psychology, biology, and pattern baldness.

[sarkeizen]

There is also visualization, mental determination, and a few other things that fall outside the realm of physics and inside the realm of psychology, biology, and pattern baldness.

Interesting. Thanks for the reply.

Are you still talking about "during a fight"? What exactly would you visualize?

Can you clarify what you mean by 'mental determination'?

(BTW: Technically biology isn't outside of physics but it is probably outside what I mean by 'simple physics').

[Kajukenbopr]

How important is the implimintation of Ch'i into your hits when you are fighting?

Any fruitful discussion requires definition!

The problem I find with most discussions about Qi, or Qi-gong is that they lack any useful definition. For example, if Qi just was a blanket label applied for things that people didn't understand the mechanism for or couldn't see. Then to treat it as some kind of unified concept that can be applied to activity "X" isn't going to be productive.

In fact, treating it like some kind of unified concept e.g. "just add Chi!" betrays just how little we know about the term. The concept wasn't even unified among the Chinese - Taoists, Neo-Confucians all had different ideas about the subject. So how would you even know what to add?

My own experience? I've yet to see anybody provide any significant evidence that in a fight whatever they call "Qi" can do anything beyond simple physics. So my personal advice would be "study physics instead! "

interesting how they didnt have physics back then and still they got it right.... huh

Chi is used in traditional chinese medicine and in the UK they are trying to incorporate it into modern medicine as well