The art of blocking

[Rich_2k3]

I think blocking and avoiding getting hit is a large and probably the most important part of martial arts, its what is hard to do, and even harder to master. You can show anyone how to throw a punch properly, but being able to defend attacks requires alot of training, skill and experience. If someone attacks you and throws a punch there is a split second were your martial arts matters mosts, if you succesfully block or dodge his attack then he is open for a counterattack and the fight can be won at this moment, conversley if you fail to block his attack and your are hit, then you are instantly at a disadvantage and open for an immidiate second attack. I made this thread for people to discuss the art of blocking and what work best or doesnt work etc. any real life experience people have would be good. To start the discussion off I have a question which has always worried me. Is it wise to meet force with force when blocking a punch? for example if someone swung at me with a hook punch, I would put my left arm up and attempt to block the punch, but would this damage my forearm? would this really work? I dont really train on diverting the power of an attack (like they do in akido) or locking their arm with some sort of grappling technique, so I wouldnt try that. Ofcourse there is a dodge ie. boxing style, but this seems like somthing anyone could do and is usually a persons immidiate reaction when you throw a punch at them anyway, it just seems abit crude and could backfire easy, its also harder to counter attack.

So, is it wise to block an attack by meeting it with force or atleast using the arm to guard the side of your face as the punch comes in? I feel as though this is one of the things that seems practical in theory but I could imagine being in a fight in the street and a guy throws a right hook at me and I raise my arm to meet it, and the punch either damages or breaks my arm or something.

p.s this thread is only about REAL fights and not sparring/training

[AndrewGreen]

get some boxing gloves and find out for yourself

[Rich_2k3]

get some boxing gloves and find out for yourself

I already have some but sparring and sport is VERY different to real life fighting, and you cant use proper blocking techniques when full contact boxing/kickboxing.

[AndrewGreen]

ok... why not?

[White Warlock]

You can show anyone how to throw a punch properly, but being able to defend attacks requires alot of training, skill and experience.

You can show anyone how to defend properly. Undermining the necessity of learning how to punch, or of how difficult it is to learn how to do so properly, does not give credence to your statement. Defending is a wide topic, while punching is a specific one. A more apt comparison would be that of attacking vs defending, or punching vs blocking. In either case, i would say the formers would be harder to teach, for it is more natural for someone to protect themselves than it is to hurt someone else.

I think blocking and avoiding getting hit is a large and probably the most important part of martial arts, its what is hard to do, and even harder to master.

blocking and avoiding, as you put it, are two different things. Defense as a whole is important, obviously, but offense is infinitely more important. Without defense, you can lose. But without offense, you cannot win.

The topic, as you presented, is about blocking, but i gather you are referring to more than merely blocking. Blocking is merely one approach to counter a strike. Personally, i believe it is the easiest to learn, yet the least effective and the more problematic. Parrying, avoiding/dodging, buffering, going-with, and jamming are far more effective approaches, although they take longer to grasp.

So... what exactly are you wanting to discuss?

[lgm]

So, is it wise to block an attack by meeting it with force or atleast using the arm to guard the side of your face as the punch comes in? I feel as though this is one of the things that seems practical in theory but I could imagine being in a fight in the street and a guy throws a right hook at me and I raise my arm to meet it, and the punch either damages or breaks my arm or something.

p.s this thread is only about REAL fights and not sparring/training

The general principle in blocking is never to directly block or stop an oncoming punch, strike or kick in its linear or curvilinear trajectory. This would require much greater power and it is likely to damage your blocking arm, hand, feet or leg.

In almost all blocks, the direction of the blocking arm should be tangential to the direction of the attacking limb, preferably at right angle (90 degrees) or at the very least acute angle (45 degrees). The goal is to deflect the oncoming attack, not to literally block it headon. In so doing, less power is needed to deflect the attacking limb away from the targetted body part and is tactically effective in that it leaves the attacker for an effective counter along the line opening left by the blocked arm or leg.

One notable exception is the X-block. Many experienced fighters would not encourage its use, as it ties up your other hand for an immediate or simultaneous counter or in blocking a simultaneous limb attack, and is potentially injurious to the person's blocking arms as it meets the force head on. However, since the blocking arm is heavily reinforced, using two instead of one arm, the potential damage is minimized.

Gene

[Rich_2k3]

You can show anyone how to throw a punch properly, but being able to defend attacks requires alot of training, skill and experience.

You can show anyone how to defend properly. Undermining the necessity of learning how to punch, or of how difficult it is to learn how to do so properly, does not give credence to your statement. Defending is a wide topic, while punching is a specific one. A more apt comparison would be that of attacking vs defending, or punching vs blocking. In either case, i would say the formers would be harder to teach, for it is more natural for someone to protect themselves than it is to hurt someone else.

I think blocking and avoiding getting hit is a large and probably the most important part of martial arts, its what is hard to do, and even harder to master.

blocking and avoiding, as you put it, are two different things. Defense as a whole is important, obviously, but offense is infinitely more important. Without defense, you can lose. But without offense, you cannot win.

The topic, as you presented, is about blocking, but i gather you are referring to more than merely blocking. Blocking is merely one approach to counter a strike. Personally, i believe it is the easiest to learn, yet the least effective and the more problematic. Parrying, avoiding/dodging, buffering, going-with, and jamming are far more effective approaches, although they take longer to grasp.

So... what exactly are you wanting to discuss?

This topic is about blocking, hence the topic name. About the punching vs. blocking, you can teach someone a roundhouse punch quite quickly, and you can teach someone a block quickly, but its alot harder to use that block properly in a real life situation, compared to the punch.

[AngelaG]

One notable exception is the X-block. Many experienced fighters would not encourage its use, as it ties up your other hand for an immediate or simultaneous counter or in blocking a simultaneous limb attack, and is potentially injurious to the person's blocking arms as it meets the force head on. However, since the blocking arm is heavily reinforced, using two instead of one arm, the potential damage is minimized.

Gene

I have to disagree with this. The "X-block" is absolutely terrible to use as a block, and in fact will weaken the block, placing the arms against each other like that (Just ask the guy that came to our dojo having broken both his wrists at his previous dojo when his sensei told him to block a mae geri with X-block).

The only block I would advocate using as a pure block, and can in fact be using going in on the opponent is the soft block. This is where the arm is flung at at an angle past 90degrees (Preferably at 135) and in a relaxed state. So still not meeting force with force. This is a great stopper for hook punches, and the bonus is the harder they hit the worse it will hurt them.

Other than that in a real altercation I would not advocate any blocks, and instead would suggest shifting, parrying and redirecting.

[White Warlock]

Agreed AngelaG

This topic is about blocking, hence the topic name. About the punching vs. blocking, you can teach someone a roundhouse punch quite quickly, and you can teach someone a block quickly, but its alot harder to use that block properly in a real life situation, compared to the punch.

A roundhouse is not all that easy to learn, mainly because it needs to be applied properly and at the appropriate targets. Also, generating force with such a strike requires significant practice. But, again, you use the 'one-type' to compare to the 'whole' of blocks. There are different types of blocks, most of which are very difficult to apply in a real life situation. But, that is an inherent trait of blocks, and one of the reasons i do not advocate them.

The problem is not the technique, nor of learning it, but of applying it. And, it is not because it is difficult to apply, but because it has to do with 'reacting' and timing, as opposed to merely technique.

While many other defensive actions can be committed at or during an assailant's action, an effective block requires that it be performed a split second after the assailant's strike is anticipated. This requires that the strike's trajectory be anticipated, the target be anticipated, the speed/acceleration, force, and angle. From there, one must insert/apply the appropriate block to the oncoming strike, and ensure that the block is not a precise one, but a wide-path one. A block that counters a large area and that is timed to counter the strike while the strike is 'within' said area.

Blocks are generally ineffective against linear strikes, and not altogether effective against circular ones. At best, they can do a reasonable job of countering heavily telegraphed strikes.... but so can just about anything else.

Jams and parries are far more effective and gear one to a more 'assertive,' or 'aggressive,' stance than a defensive one. Jams are basically that of inserting one's arm, or leg, in the path of the 'potential' assault, preventing/hampering the assailant's ability to perform an attack from that direction. Usually it is performed 'while' an attack is in progress, but it can just as effectively be performed 'before' an attack is initiated.

edit - i transposed roundhouse with haymaker in my mind, and thus corrected my comments on the subject.

Edited October 2, 2005 by White Warlock

[White Warlock]

If someone attacks you and throws a punch there is a split second were your martial arts matters mosts, if you succesfully block or dodge his attack then he is open for a counterattack and the fight can be won at this moment, conversley if you fail to block his attack and your are hit, then you are instantly at a disadvantage and open for an immidiate second attack.

The initial strike committed by a person is likely to be a sucker-punch, not a telegraphed show. Because of this, it will likely make contact. To decrease the likelihood of such an assault, it is best to maintain distance, or to go on the offensive if someone enters too close. It is not a matter of waiting until they hit you, but of ensuring they cannot, or ensuring you hit first. The error is in taking turns, or in being sportsmanlike and refraining from initiating the 'physical' aspect of a confrontation.

But, it is often assumed that the person who impacts first will be the one to win a confrontation. This is not necessarily true. If the defender is conditioned, and the initial strike is not a 'lucky' hit, then he would easily be able to shrug off the strike and counter.

Ofcourse there is a dodge ie. boxing style, but this seems like somthing anyone could do and is usually a persons immidiate reaction when you throw a punch at them anyway, it just seems abit crude and could backfire easy, its also harder to counter attack.

i was struck with full force on the face by an assailant, but because of my training in boxing, i instinctively allowed my head to roll with the punch and the strike had 'virtually' no impact on me. I lost absolutely no time and immediately struck back, later finishing the confrontation with a submission.

You clearly underestimate the training associated with boxing, and the skills developed in that art. Boxing presents some of the best means to both attack and defend against strikes, but it is often overlooked because of its sport focus and because much of it looks so easy, when performed by a pro, many erroneously assume it is also easy to learn. It is not.

I dont really train on diverting the power of an attack (like they do in akido) or locking their arm with some sort of grappling technique, so I wouldnt try that.

Well, what you don't know... will hurt you. The gaps in knowledge you present, and your statement that you "wouldn't try that," indicate to me you need to be more open to learning.

Is it wise to meet force with force when blocking a punch? for example if someone swung at me with a hook punch, I would put my left arm up and attempt to block the punch, but would this damage my forearm? would this really work? .... ....

.... So, is it wise to block an attack by meeting it with force or atleast using the arm to guard the side of your face as the punch comes in?

No, it is not wise, nor is it the way a block is performed. What you are presenting is a sacrifice... and a bad idea. Taking a strike in another part of the body, as opposed to the assailant's intended target. It is a desperate action that is 'not' a martial skill.

The rope-a-dope, coined by Muhammed Ali, is a good example of a sacrifice.. in that he took a tremendous beating on his arms to protect his head. Its goal was to wear down the opponent, and due to the gloves being worn by the opponent, as well as the conditioning Ali received, Ali was able to endure the beatings and outlast his opponent. However, such a tactic is not altogether effective, nor smart, to use outside of a ring.