What do you think of XMA?

[Brandon Fisher]

You can compare XMA with Capeoria just a little different. I wish people would call it as it is.

You would get Capoeira practitioners upset by comparing the two.

Thats true just like comparing it to Karate. People look at this and think its karate also but its not. It gymnastic showmanship not martial arts.

[Aodhan]

You can compare XMA with Capeoria just a little different. I wish people would call it as it is.

You would get Capoeira practitioners upset by comparing the two.

Thats true just like comparing it to Karate. People look at this and think its karate also but its not. It gymnastic showmanship not martial arts.

Not quite, it has gymnastic components, but other than the straight back flip or the side semi, most of the moves have kicks and strikes incorporated into it. While it isn't straight traditional MA, neither is it completely gymnastics, either.

Heh, I work out at a local gymnastics club so I can teach XMA stuff (Great training place, running trampolines, padded floors, foam pits and pads...), and I had an A level gymnast that could not get a 540. They didn't have the martial arts background to perform the kick, even though they had the gymnastic ability to do the jump and spin.

XMA is not gymnastics, and gymnastics is not XMA. XMA is not traditional martial arts, it is an extension of kicks that we already do in martial arts. A tornado (or butterfly) kick (i.e. jump spin inner crescent) is the same thing as a 540, the only difference is which leg you land on.

Aodhan

[Brandon Fisher]

Its gymnastic I didn't say it was gymnastics. I clearly know the difference I have done both.

[Aodhan]

Its gymnastic I didn't say it was gymnastics. I clearly know the difference I have done both.

Ok, I stand corrected. However, it is still martial arts, just a subset of martial arts.

Aodhan

[Brandon Fisher]

Show me the bunkai of what they are doing and I may be more open minded. I see no practical purpose in it at all.

[Aodhan]

Show me the bunkai of what they are doing and I may be more open minded. I see no practical purpose in it at all.

Practical as in "use it in a fight"? Probably not practical at all. Practical as in it increases the coordination of the basics in your chosen art, gives you more confidence, more mastery over your body, yes it does all of these. Is a jump spin outer crescent useful in a street fight? 360 jump reverse side kick? Also probably not. Yet we accept these as common traditional elements.

As far as showing you the bunkai, then look at ATA, Kenpo, Kempo, Shotokan, many of the "traditional" TKD and Karate branches. As I keep saying, XMA itself is merely a marketing tool that codifies a system of teaching the stunts that have been used on the open competition circuit for years.

Here's some of the training backgrounds of recent ISKA champions:

Mike Chat - Shorei Ryu

Marc Canonizado - TKD, Capoeira, & Kung Fu

Steve Terada - Tang Soo Do

Chris Brewster - Tang Soo Do, TKD

Craig Henningsen - Shorei Ryu

And, if you go through and look at the backgrounds of the people that are NASKA ranked in various levels of creative forms (Or musical forms), to a person they have a solid background in traditional martial arts. Nobody that I can find is a gymnast that learned some kicks, or anything like that. XMA, for all the uproar, is NOT a martial arts system. It is NOTHING more than a system of teaching the components needed to compete at a high level in the creative forms division. People have been doing it for years and years already.

Also, if people never try anything new, then where does advancement come from? If all you do is completely copy everything that your sensei/sabunim/instructor hands down to you, then there is no advancement, there is only stagnation.

Aodhan

[Brandon Fisher]

True things must porgress and grow. But I do believe in traditional martial arts ryu-ha that teach someone to defend themselves. To many schools are using XMA as a system and saying its self defense.

[bushido_man96]

True things must porgress and grow. But I do believe in traditional martial arts ryu-ha that teach someone to defend themselves. To many schools are using XMA as a system and saying its self defense.

You have to look out for places like that with the word 'kickboxing' as well. If place says it offers kickboxing, you have to check to make sure that it isn't cardio kickboxing.

I do feel that XMA is great for those who like to demonstrate their athleticism in an MA venue. We all have paths we can travel. For some, it is the UFC. For others, it is teaching more 'traditional' methods, and for others, it is the level of competition offered via XMA.

[Brandon Fisher]

true

[DONO]

As has been stated, XMA is not a martial art in and of itself. XMA is a style of presentation that was developed by Mike Chat in response to what works on the open forms circuit. To develop this part of it (The 540 kicks, acrobatics, yells, "flash", etc), he created the XMA program to be an ADJUNCT to a traditional MA program.

While it does help, I see traditional forms still place highly at national level open events. I see the XMA applications being of more use in the weapons competitions, simply because it teaches the flashy, street useless moves such as the hand rolls, release moves, tosses, etc. However, to get to that point, you also have to have a basic mastery of the weapon first.

Same thing for the MA part of it. One of the basic forms that they present has a sequence of round/hook kicks done at three different levels followed immediately by an axe kick. 7 kicks in sequence without putting the foot down, you better have the kicks already good and under control, or you ain't making it.

XMA is a stylistic addition to a traditional MA program. The ATA has it licensed to use in all their schools, and in the kids that are doing it, I see an increased sharpness in their traditional MA, as well as a higher level of excitement about coming to class in general.

Aodhan

I agree with you for the most part, but I would just like to add something for everyone else. In national level and international level comeptitions there are two seperate divisions that divide traditional MA and performance MA and I've seen people like Scott Wu be succesful in both.

Also about the basics-first theory you have, I completely agree with you. My instructor made me master my basic bo skills before he taught me all the releases and flips with it.

And it does make kids more enthusiastic about coming to class... ^_^