Karate defence against BJJ

[White Warlock]

SenseiMike, your assumption is that they will immediately go for a double-leg takedown, which is a rather n00bish manuever on their part, one of the easiest of takedowns to counter, and basically... only 'one' way they can take you down.

The more experienced grapplers that would opt to go for a leg takedown would go from a single to a double, or from a single to a takedown, or from an ankle-up, knee-wrench, etc. Of those who do go for a double-leg takedown, if you are able to get them into a choke hold, it is due to them performing the manuever incorrectly (head thrust forward, rather than pressed against your body) and thus you are dealing with beginners. If you are able to perform a throw on them, as well it would be due to them being beginners, because if done properly... assuming they are silly and do go for a double leg... their stance will be low, yet centered.

[SubGrappler]

Very much agreed with Andrew and Warlock- in keeping a back stance like the one you described, you've got no chance whatsoever to sprawl. Your front leg would be easy pickings.

[lgm]

In the streetfight example I gave, the defender doesn't have any idea before hand if the attacker is a grappler and not a stand up fighter.

Yes, but that wasn't my point. I simply stated that you didn't indicate whether the person fought was a grappler...

My explanation is found on the quote that immediately follows. When someone attacks you in the street, you can only assume he is a grappler and not a stand up fighter from his fighting posture before or in the process of attacking. In my example I qualified it to describe that the "opponent goes on a tackling stance and attacks..." and on this basis alone you would assume he is a grappler-fighter. You won't know whether he is untrained or not before the actual fight begins and at its initial stage, if he is a total stranger to you.

However, when his opponent goes on a tackling stance and attacks, he has only a split second to determine that he is dealing with a grappler.

Or that he is suckering you into thinking he is a grappler. I do this on occasion, to cause a person to 'assume' i am not capable of standup fighting. As well, i put on a firm stance on occasion, to sucker grapplers into going for a single leg. I then fold on them and am on top of them.

Quite possible he is suckering me into thinking he is one. But, the fight is just beginning and I'm still thinking as I fight. I would soon find out in his next second move what his strategy is, hopefully that is.

Since he is not experienced and skilled in grappling defense, the stand up fighter must aim to knock down or knock out the attacker through mid-range techniques like punching, striking, kicking and sweeping before the latter can clinch or grapple any part of his anatomy.

...Anyway, the point is not actually to knock down, or knock out, but to cause as much damage as possible in as short a time as possible. What you are presenting is what i call the 'big mistake.' It is aiming for the knockout, rather than being relentless and overwhelming the grappler at the striking range. Knocking out your opponent may be fine and dandy, but that is headhunting, and will get you in trouble with a grappler.

To me, aiming to knock down or knock out a guy is not a 'big mistake'. What you call "relentless and overwhelming the grappler at the striking range" may be one means of doing so, but it is just the instrumental means to a more definite end objective, which is putting the guy out of commission. Knocking him out, which is a penultimate end, definitely puts him out of commission which I would say, is the ultimate end of your fighting it out with him.

Other than relentless, shotgun or machine-gun type of striking, it cannot be disputed that an expert standup fighter may be quite good at hitting pinpointed vital targets with appropriate setting up strategies. There's more than one way to skin a grappler. One opinion deserves another on how it can be done.

Unlike in a professional fight on the ring where attacks to vital parts like eyes, throat and groin are disallowed or banned, this is not so in a streetfight and must be the primary targets of the standup streetfighter, inexperienced in grappling defense.

Aiming for small targets is always a bad idea, especially in the rush of a confrontation. If, during your barrage, you gain the opportunity... sure, take it. But do not make it your end-goal, or primary targets. If anything, they should be targets of opportunity.

I don't think we disagree much here. My instrumental means could be as you describe, "targets of opportunity", some of which are vital, others semi-vital while others are just diversionary, any open target that presents itself is welcome and should be taken advantage of. But, my idea of a expert fighting is aiming for the vital spots that could end the fight fast and decisively as my ultimate goal. Now to reach this final goal, I may have to go through the target of opportunity-route to get to it, why not? So, more or less we are on the same page.

[Willannem]

You can use a bunch of tactics to avoid being taken down...jump, use angles, etc. By all means, don't stand still or solidify your stance! By doing so, not only will grapplers hurt you, so will strikers. If your art doesn't teach you any ground fighting techniques, I suggest you quickly find a resource to supplement your training. The percentage of fights that end on the ground doesn't interest me. My ability to fight while on the ground does. In saying that, the ground is the last place I want to be during a fight because I have lost control of my environment…can’t watch for additional attackers.

[24fightingchickens]

As far as padding the hands, this is to prevent strikers from breaking their hands- a very common occurance in early MMA events. Gloves allows fighters to punch as hard as they can with no fears of breaking their hands. The padding protects the hands from the head, not the head from the hands.

There is no way to protect the hands with pads which do not weaken the impact of punches.

[AndrewGreen]

Protecting the hands increases the impact of the punch.

[lgm]

Protecting the hands increases the impact of the punch.

This doesn't seem to have any scientific basis. How do you explain this in terms of Newton's law or some other laws of motion/force, if you please?

[AndrewGreen]

Because without the gloves, you'd break your hands. Wrap them up, glove them up and you can hit a lot harder, which bounce the brain around a lot more, which does more damage.

Even the ancient greeks protected there hands when boxing, and later on that protection involved inserting metal rivets into the protection.

[lgm]

Because without the gloves, you'd break your hands. Wrap them up, glove them up and you can hit a lot harder, which bounce the brain around a lot more, which does more damage.

I can understand how wrapping the hands can protect the hands from impact injury by promoting the rigidity of the finger joints and wrist, but I cannot understand how it can make you hit harder. Hitting harder depends on the acceleration of the punching arm, putting the body mass behind your punch, rotating or vibrating the hips and other biomechanical motions needed to achieve maximum acceleration of the punch.

However, hurting your hand on the first or initial impacts can cause you to consciously slow down your punch, achieve less contact with the target or deliberately hit with less force because of the feedback pain. Feedback pain can slow down your baseline or maximum punch, but absence pain cannot increase your punch beyond your baseline maximum force. The only physical and biomechanical factors that can increase it are what I explained in the second sentence of my first paragraph above.

[SubGrappler]

As far as padding the hands, this is to prevent strikers from breaking their hands- a very common occurance in early MMA events. Gloves allows fighters to punch as hard as they can with no fears of breaking their hands. The padding protects the hands from the head, not the head from the hands.

There is no way to protect the hands with pads which do not weaken the impact of punches.

Not true. By using gloves, you increase the surface area of the punch, which actually gives you a better chance of knocking someone out.

Any striker who trains in some form of MMA or full contact knows full well the reasons for using the gloves.

Im serious when I tell you to go rent a UFC video (suggest the first one for this debate) and watch how many fighters will break their hands when they start throwing. Once you break your hand, you're not going to be punching with too much power anymore. Instances of KO's went UP after the introduction of gloves, not down