Karate defence against BJJ

[SenseiMike]

I've fought a lot of bjj guys, I actually like fighting them better than any other style. The best, defense you've got is your stance, if you're in a good stance, you aren't going to get lifted at the knees, yes that is by far the most attempted take daown, but if you're stance is good, they should NEVER be able to grab both legs.

[shotokan1725681457]

I've fought a lot of bjj guys, I actually like fighting them better than any other style. The best, defense you've got is your stance, if you're in a good stance, you aren't going to get lifted at the knees, yes that is by far the most attempted take daown, but if you're stance is good, they should NEVER be able to grab both legs.

Ok, so tell us what stance do you call a "good" one? In zenkutsu, fudo, kokutsu, hangetsu and whatever stance we practice in traditional shotokan karate, your front leg is a good target to grab. And as soon as grappler seize it, he will press his head to your body and you will have no chance to use strong karate technics just be cause there will be no space for it. Other tricks like eyes squeezing and throat crashing are not so simple to use as many of you think it is.

IMHO the only thing a striker can do against a grappler is to "cause as much damage as possible , in as short a time as possible" as it's already said here. Atack groin, knees, use uppercut when he closes the distance to grab you (the don't care much about their head protection when they move to grab your leg be cause thier main idea is to close the distance at whatever cost - at least in BJJ). Hiza geri (knee kick) and uppercut are very good strikes, be cause grappler bands his body and his face becomes unprotected. Use tai sabaki actions and atack his kidney, groin and knees again and again. But never let him grab your leg. Remember that they improve thier grappling and wrestling skills at every trainig. It's useless trying to defeat them in the area, where they are Gods.

But even if you find your self mounted on the ground, don't panic, use their own methods to escape from the mounted position and use use use STRIKES, bite whatever you can bite, squeeze thier balls but don't let them wrestle with you. He will catch you on the painful hold and break your arm or leg if you don't disable him before.

[y2_sub]

I can give you cold hard facts that back up my claim, by people that have actually gone out and researched it. But first I want to see some facts on your side, backing up your extraordinary claim; and I don't mean some dojo coming out with the bog-standard saying on their website, as sales hype.

First , I am not saying fights should go to the ground , I am saying that there is a big chance that a fight can go to the ground and that's not to be underestimated , want facts basing on my experience ?? I am a pure striker and I ended up on the ground in 2 different occasions (street fights) , if it wasn't for the little judo I do I wouldn't be able to stand up again and resume the fight

I am not backing up BJJ clames , but those guys are for real , if they get to you they will take you down , i know that you are going to say "A good striker will fight from a distance" thing , well.... A good grappler won't , there is big chance that he gets to u and gets you down , and when he does , you know the rest

Edited October 2, 2005 by y2_sub

[White Warlock]

In the streetfight example I gave, the defender doesn't have any idea before hand if the attacker is a grappler and not a stand up fighter.

Yes, but that wasn't my point. I simply stated that you didn't indicate whether the person fought was a grappler...

However, when his opponent goes on a tackling stance and attacks, he has only a split second to determine that he is dealing with a grappler.

Or that he is suckering you into thinking he is a grappler. I do this on occasion, to cause a person to 'assume' i am not capable of standup fighting. As well, i put on a firm stance on occasion, to sucker grapplers into going for a single leg. I then fold on them and am on top of them.

Since he is not experienced and skilled in grappling defense, the stand up fighter must aim to knock down or knock out the attacker through mid-range techniques like punching, striking, kicking and sweeping before the latter can clinch or grapple any part of his anatomy.

Obviously, since that is his only skills. It's not like he should attempt to 'grapple' a grappler, right?

Anyway, the point is not actually to knock down, or knock out, but to cause as much damage as possible in as short a time as possible. What you are presenting is what i call the 'big mistake.' It is aiming for the knockout, rather than being relentless and overwhelming the grappler at the striking range. Knocking out your opponent may be fine and dandy, but that is headhunting, and will get you in trouble with a grappler.

Unlike in a professional fight on the ring where attacks to vital parts like eyes, throat and groin are disallowed or banned, this is not so in a streetfight and must be the primary targets of the standup streetfighter, inexperienced in grappling defense.

Aiming for small targets is always a bad idea, especially in the rush of a confrontation. If, during your barrage, you gain the opportunity... sure, take it. But do not make it your end-goal, or primary targets. If anything, they should be targets of opportunity.

I've fought a lot of bjj guys, I actually like fighting them better than any other style. The best, defense you've got is your stance, if you're in a good stance, you aren't going to get lifted at the knees, yes that is by far the most attempted take daown, but if you're stance is good, they should NEVER be able to grab both legs.

Umm, the most attempted takedown by bjjers is not the the leg takedown. That is more common with wrestlers. Also, as ^shotokan^ noted, the stances presented in shotokan are actually grade A prime meat for a grappler.

Anyway, the repertoire of grappler varies with their background and degree of training. There are many that excell in upper-body takedown, while others excell in leg-takedowns. Others may utilize approaches that can throw off even an experienced grappler. To 'assume' one approach or another is to ask for defeat. To rely on your own system to defeat another system is to stand on a pedestal of glass, a pedestal of ignorance.

[AndrewGreen]

I've fought a lot of bjj guys, I actually like fighting them better than any other style. The best, defense you've got is your stance, if you're in a good stance, you aren't going to get lifted at the knees, yes that is by far the most attempted take daown, but if you're stance is good, they should NEVER be able to grab both legs.

No offence, but it sounds like all the guys you've sparred with had really weak takedowns. Quite common in lower level BJJ as that is not what they focus on.

A strong stance makes you easier to takedown for someone that knows what they are doing.

[SubGrappler]

Be sure your fighting stance is low, knees bent . Try to evade being held by the legs. But, if he does catches your legs, use gedan empi (downward elbow strike) to hit the back of his neck before or when he makes contact to free yourself. If you are able to evade being held by the legs, step back and execute a strong mae geri (front kick) to any part of his face and then use your elbow for a follow-up downward strike.

Nevertheless, whether you have learned effective ground fighting or not, keep on hitting him in every vital area open (throat, eyes, nose, balls) while you are on the ground. Of course, this is done only in a real streetfight, not in sports

This is not a good idea Ben, for a few reasons.

1: A low stance with your feet rooted in the ground makes you easy to take down. You'd rather be light on your feet, which enables you to quickly sprawl.

2: In the event that a grappler manages to catch a hold of your legs when he shoots in, no amount of striking is going to enable you to escape. Sprawl out, twist your hips, and fight to get distance between your hips and your opponent. You dont have the effective range to build up power for your strikes to hurt your opponent enough to get him to let go of your legs, and you'll also be off balance to an extent that your strikes will have no power behind them.

3: Reaching for vital areas is not a new technique or suggestion. If you do not know how to fight on the ground, I woudl suggest avoiding doing any of these, since you'll most likely be exposing yourself from a bad position, giving your opponent better submission opportunities.

Err, at the club I've seen train the BJJ guys are trained to work against other grapplers. I've not seen any one of them ever actually strike, so how can they be trained to deal against strikers?

Its not very difficult- takedowns are how to deal with strikers, and grapplers know well enough to cover up and protect as they go in for the clinch.

How is that a fact? Anyway, if a striker manages to KO their attacker before they get a chance to grapple then there will never be a chance to see if grappling will "win every time". Anyway it's fairly obvious that a trained, skilled grappler will beat an unskilled grappler - when grappling - so that's why you try and work to your own advantages and skills.

He got a little ahead of himself- its not a fact that a grappler wins every time all the time, but it IS a fact that a pure grappler defeats a pure striker upwards of about 90% of the time

Even UFC hobbles the karate players by putting them on a squishy mat and padding their fists. That's pretty much the fight right there.

You had a great post until there. First off, the padded mats- who's going to be the one who's getting picked up and slammed on the ground- the wrestler by the karateka or the karateka by the wrestler? If its on concrete, and the wrestler picks up the karateka Matt Hughes style, the fight is over when he puts him through the ground.

When asked whether he wanted to fight on mats or on concrete in the early days of the Gracie Challenege, Rorion Gracie used to respond to his opponents "that depends- do you want to land on a mat, or do you want to land on concrete?"

As far as padding the hands, this is to prevent strikers from breaking their hands- a very common occurance in early MMA events. Gloves allows fighters to punch as hard as they can with no fears of breaking their hands. The padding protects the hands from the head, not the head from the hands.

Pitting a skilled grappler against a skilled striker/kicker cannot be predicted accurately as to who will win.

Pure striker vs pure grappler? Sure it can- watch any number of early MMA events that had fights featuring these types of matches.

On another note: In a real situation, your opponent would turn your groin into hamburger meat if you rely on the guard

Perhaps if you dont know what you're doing. The first time a person even attempts to put his hands close to my groin, hes going to get caught in a triangle and choked unconcious.

[AndrewGreen]

There is actually a good case to be made that MMA is safer without the gloves as fighters can't hit as hard without them.

They really do nothing to prevent damage to the person getting hit, except superficial damage like cuts. The brain actually gets bounced around more.

[White Warlock]

good post Sub

[SenseiMike]

When I fight I stay completely linear in a long back stance, I keep at an angle, and I don't back up, Thus if they come in to tackle, they through themselves off ballance, and it opens up a chance for me to get in a good choke hold or throw on them. If you stay long in your stance and keep them at an angle, there just not going to take you down, you'll lose some offense that way, but the defense is untouchable

[AndrewGreen]

When I fight I stay completely linear in a long back stance, I keep at an angle, and I don't back up, Thus if they come in to tackle, they through themselves off ballance, and it opens up a chance for me to get in a good choke hold or throw on them. If you stay long in your stance and keep them at an angle, there just not going to take you down, you'll lose some offense that way, but the defense is untouchable

Cool, then you should head to nearest University and share this important insight, I'm sure the wrestling team will be very greatful if you can show them how to become untouchable...

More likely, you'll get single legged really quickly and they will laugh about it for a quite a while afterwards.