Karate defence against BJJ

[SubGrappler]

a single leg take down just should not happen to a seasoned martial artist, to a kick boxer yes, but not to a seasoned martial artist.

What "seasoned" martial artists do you know that have actually trained the defense against a double leg? Not only trained the defense against it, but have ACTUALLY done so against someone who knows what they're doing (i.e. a seasoned wrestler or grappler).

A grapple attack (shot, leg pick, clinch up) is like any other attack (punch, kick, elbow). To say that a "seasoned" martial artist is never to fall victim to a double leg is like saying that hes also never going to get hit in a fight. If you square off against someone who has thrown 10,000 single leg takedowns in his career and you havent actually tried to defend against a single leg- you're going down.

[White Warlock]

Correct. And consider this... seasoned grapplers get taken down by single-leg takedowns. Indeed, it's one of the more common takedowns for grapplers to do against other grapplers. Now... if a grappler has a problem with single-leg takedowns, how do you think those not specifically trained and not regularly practicing in full resistance is going to be able to do?

Exactly...

[SenseiMike]

a single leg take down just should not happen to a seasoned martial artist, to a kick boxer yes, but not to a seasoned martial artist.

What "seasoned" martial artists do you know that have actually trained the defense against a double leg? Not only trained the defense against it, but have ACTUALLY done so against someone who knows what they're doing (i.e. a seasoned wrestler or grappler).

A grapple attack (shot, leg pick, clinch up) is like any other attack (punch, kick, elbow). To say that a "seasoned" martial artist is never to fall victim to a double leg is like saying that hes also never going to get hit in a fight. If you square off against someone who has thrown 10,000 single leg takedowns in his career and you havent actually tried to defend against a single leg- you're going down.

In short answer to that question Me, and all of my students over yellow belt.

I believe that karate has an answer to everything if you know where to look for it, I've also been around this area long enough to have fought a lot of people. Many of those people have become good friends, some are tkd, some kung fu, some JJ or judo. They come into my school atleast once a month to spar, and rule #1 in my dojo is if you go down, you need more work on your stance.

[SenseiMike]

Lets pause for a second and examine a good karate stance:

distribution of weight, able to quickly redistribute that weight, able to quickly switch stances, able to strike, sweep, or throw from that stance.

defense against take downs is key to stance training, yeah it's posible to get taken down, people make mistakes, but a grappler should have to work harder to get you down than a simple single leg take down. The only time that should work is if you're in the middle of a kick, or moving on your feet.

My dojo kicks 90% of our kicking techniques at thigh level, they're fast, hard, more practical, and not easy to grab. We don't back up, and we move in "sliding" motion so our feet never really leave the ground. This isn't anything new, it's actually really old. The whole idea of stance traing is ancient.

we also do a training drill beginning at white belt, that drill is one student stands in a fighting stance and the rest of the class lines up in front of him, one by one each attempts a take down via the legs, single leg, double leg, even foot ball tackles if nothing else works. That's a vital part of reaching yellow belt. I'm very big on stance training.

[AndrewGreen]

So if this stance you are using is so effective at stopping takedowns, why do you suppose no wrestler would stand like that?

Stopping takedowns is what they do everytime they step on the mat, yet none stop takedowns in the way you are describing, why do you suppose that is?

[y2_sub]

Karate stances are effective for karate-kas only , it takes years for a karate-ka to master his stances , you do not expect from a wrestler to spend years in stance training that may or may not work

[SenseiMike]

So if this stance you are using is so effective at stopping takedowns, why do you suppose no wrestler would stand like that?

Stopping takedowns is what they do everytime they step on the mat, yet none stop takedowns in the way you are describing, why do you suppose that is?

because by and large wrestlers don't fight like that, some judo-ka do, and they do stand like that.

example:

Judo an art of mostly throwing that can include take downs submissions

Wrestling an art soley of take downs & submissions

A karateka fights to stay on his feet, but get the opponent off of his. I'd say 90% of karate schools don't do propper stance training, if they did, you'd see a big difference on the national level.

[AndrewGreen]

Judo doesn't do much for leg takedowns, and when they get in, there buts go out and they get low. They do not stand upright.

Wrestling does not allow submissions. One of the two major style (Greco-Roman) doesn't allow attacks too or with the legs, everything is upper body throws.

" if they did, you'd see a big difference on the national level."

So are you considered a national level coach?

[Traditional-Fist]

A karateka fights to stay on his feet, but get the opponent off of his. I'd say 90% of karate schools don't do propper stance training, if they did, you'd see a big difference on the national level.

Very important comment. I hope that the people here realize the significance of that point. It also holds true for kung fu as well. Many so called exponents of these two noble arts spend their "fighting lives" bouncing around like yo-yos and can not hold their stances if their lives depended on it.

[Ego Assassin]

I believe we are all failing to look at what mma has done to prove grappling against stand-up fighters. Now someone will bring up Chuck Liddel but lets remember that he wrestled on the college level and trains extensively on the ground. Why? So he CAN stay on his feet. I am also from the area that Mr. Sensei Mike is from We are just up the road from eachother and I can tell you he has never been in our school. We train BJJ JUDO WRESTLING MUAY THAI AND BOXING. His beleif is that a BJJ practitioner of purple belt level (the next is brown then black) should have to fight black belt level karate practitioners at his tournament which leads one to believe that regardless of what he says he has great respect for grappling arts.