Karate defence against BJJ

[Adonis]

actually I would learn wrestling pacifically take down defenses, some basic stuff about the postions on the ground and focus no escapes and submission counters so you can work back to your feet. How ever the most important to focus on in gaining a high skill at wrestling take down defense. From both long range shoots to cllich take down defense.

If they can't take you down then they can work there BJJ on you. Just don't let take down defense be only thing you should know how because maybe they do take you down. You got to learn to defend against submissions and then escape the dominant postions and work back towards your feet.

Basically what I am saying is you want to deal with a grappler you got to know some basic grappling not saying you got to be expert but least be proficent at what keeps you up on your feet so you can work what you do best, striking.

So now basically what I am saying is you want to defend agains't grappling you got to spend time acutally grappling.

[Adonis]

You may not have time to do bjj but you can probably ask around your class and see if some one has done some wrelsting or hopefully you find some one who did or is doing in in college level or some one who was good in high school and made state.

And ask them about how to defend takes downs maybe have them teach you sprawl and they shoot on you and you work the spraw and get back to your feet or work on preventing take downs in the clinch by basing your self right and how to avoid the opponent.

I am sure you can spend 15 minutes after class doing that with some one then go home. That would be least a start

[b3n]

All good advice. Thanks.

[Ego Assassin]

it is no use to simply tap the the guy as you will just make him more angry without hurting him !

so basically karateka must finish the fight with a knock out technique or more than likely he will be in trouble ![/u][/b]

Tapping is for class in the street you just break whatever you get.

[SubGrappler]

Karate versus BJJ ?

 

Depending on the level of competency by both sides ,I would say that in most cases karateka has to keep his distance and must find an ippon technique to knock out the BJJ !

 

Close enough to punch/kick is close enough to grab- to prevent the clinch, you'd literally have to run away, in which case its no longer a fight

I know it is not easy ! especially against a well trained and conditioned BJJ and if he gets the grip on the karateka he will have the definite advantage but it all goes down to how the karateka has developed his technique in training .if he has good technique and timing he always has the chance of smashing his front kick to his face as he is comming for a take down

 

You wouldnt even have time to think front kick if someone tried a double leg takedown on you. Before the kick is even chambered you'd be on your back. Grapplers do not attempt takedowns from 10 feet out, arms spread open and diving in at the legs. Takedowns are setup with punches, feigns, and level changes at a range that is the same where punches and kicks are used. The only defense to a shot attempt is a sprawl, that is if you want to stay on your feet.

or by taking the inititive and attack first by trying a barrage of techniques that CAN cause damage it is no use to simply tap the the guy as you will just make him more angry without hurting him !

 

so basically karateka must finish the fight with a knock out technique or more than likely he will be in trouble !

Just make him angry without hurting him? I dont think you've EVER trained in any type of submission martial art. Submission holds are not pain compliance holds. Choke holds will render your opponent unconcious in a matter of seconds. Joint locks will dislocate/break the joint you're attacking.

The reason why you see people tap out is because they're caught in these submissions. The pain you feel is just a nice little side effect- you bones breaking, your ligaments tearing, and your muscles being hyperextended are what cause the pain. After someone has broken your arm in two, its safe to say that regardless of how good your striking skills may be, you're no longer a threat to knock him out when you no longer have any use of your arm.

[Traditional-Fist]

He can in a wrestling match because theres no strikes, just as theres no takedowns in karate.

Karate has a whole lot of takedowns. They are trained on a regular basis at any dojo that teaches Okinawan karate - if the teacher knows his style well.

Okinawan karate is not just kicking, punching and blocking. It's locking, throwing and groundwork as well.

Jussi,

I just put up your post for some of the posters to read again. If we are talking about karate then we should talk about REAL karate and the way it is trained by many (but apparently, not enough) people.

I believe that there is a lot of misunderstanding nowadays about what real karate (as indeed, real kung fu is all about.

[Hitman]

Well, there's a lot of useful stuff for you here and some stuff that might not be so useful.

Generally speaking, 2 martial artists should NEVER be fighting anyway, so you shouldn't worry about it much. However, since not everyone who knows a martial arts technique is a REAL martial artist....

We are talking about the AGE OLD question of whether a ground fighter will beat a stand-up fighter. I can't believe we haven't had more arguments about it It ALL depends on the individual. When the above poster said that when a guys "shoots" your legs, you wouldn't have time to kick him, he's flat wrong. It depends on the guy shooting and how fast the kicker is. Generally speaking, a shoot for the knees is VERY fast though, and you probably will not have time to chamber a good, pretty-looking kick and fire it off before you are down and pinned. Moreso, when you are throwing that slow kick, it is actually HELPING the ground fighter take you down- you are now on one leg. If you are gonna try to kick him, do it BLAZING fast. What is more effective is KNEEING the guy as he comes in- it's a little faster.

Also...try stepping back. That sounds really obvious, but what I mean here is stepping back out of the way of that innitial shoot- preferrably stepping circularly- and kicking the crap outta his sides.

The problem here is that most stand-up fighting styles are concerned with others who are standing up. What side kick is any good for someone who is lying prone?? Your main concern will be "going down" to get him while remaining upright.

Hit and run works fairly well- again depending completely on the opponent at the time. As an above poster said- close enough to strike is close enough to grapple. BUT, not if your technique is in-does its damage- and back out again before the guy can grab it.

Finally, dude...you REALLY need to learn some ground fighting techniques. I am not saying become completely efficient in BJJ, but at least ask your Sensei about ground fighting. Just as a good reverse punch WORKS, so does grappling techniques. If you cannot defend a reverse you could be in trouble. If you cannot defend a leg shoot, you could be in trouble.

[SubGrappler]

Well, there's a lot of useful stuff for you here and some stuff that might not be so useful.

Generally speaking, 2 martial artists should NEVER be fighting anyway, so you shouldn't worry about it much.

Happens when people get into quarrels over who's style is better (such as the old Ju Jitsu schools of Japan which lead to Kano's Judo)

We are talking about the AGE OLD question of whether a ground fighter will beat a stand-up fighter. I can't believe we haven't had more arguments about it It ALL depends on the individual. When the above poster said that when a guys "shoots" your legs, you wouldn't have time to kick him, he's flat wrong. It depends on the guy shooting and how fast the kicker is.

Theres lots of BJJ schools in Virginia and the surrouding areas. Richmond Top Team is down around there just as one of Saulo Ribeiro's affiliates and team Lloyd Irvin. Go tell them that you're going to kick someone in the face when they shoot in on you-

Let me put your argument into context for you- when I box against Roy Jones Jr, he'll never hit me because everytime he throws a jab Im going to just back up so it doesnt hit me. If Im constantly running away, it works- if I try to back up as he throws the jab- it'll never work.

Generally speaking, a shoot for the knees is VERY fast though, and you probably will not have time to chamber a good, pretty-looking kick and fire it off before you are down and pinned. Moreso, when you are throwing that slow kick, it is actually HELPING the ground fighter take you down- you are now on one leg. If you are gonna try to kick him, do it BLAZING fast. What is more effective is KNEEING the guy as he comes in- it's a little faster.

Its legal in MMA- and I've seen it work once in over 10 years......

Also...try stepping back. That sounds really obvious, but what I mean here is stepping back out of the way of that innitial shoot- preferrably stepping circularly- and kicking the crap outta his sides.

I encourage you to go to a school that teaches some sort of groundfighting or submission wrestling. Look preferably for a BJJ school and tell them your theories on how to prevent the takedown, and its very possible to do this in a respectful manner as well ("hey, I want to see how my techniques will hold up- can we spar?")

Heres one more thing that many people dont take into account about the dreaded double leg takedown- a grappler doesnt always have to throw it. If I say Im going to shoot and you expect it, you're going to have a much better chance at defending it. There are many other possibilities. Any intelligent fighter will survey the situation- if a shot attempt isnt available, he can go into a clinch, or if hes overly protective of a grappling technique he could *gasp* HIT YOU BACK!

Hit and run works fairly well- again depending completely on the opponent at the time. As an above poster said- close enough to strike is close enough to grapple. BUT, not if your technique is in-does its damage- and back out again before the guy can grab it.

He doesnt need to grab your arms- he simply needs to grab you

Finally, dude...you REALLY need to learn some ground fighting techniques.

I would respectfully suggest you do the same.

[shogeri]

The Okinawan Goju Ryu I learned was a complete way. However, in many regards it was still founded in the technical aspects up to BB. That is, each of us knew our stuff, but few of us could actually fight dynamicall, or fluidly.

Combine a decade of research, and study, and hands on training with Chinese Boxer's, Baquazhang practitioners, Jujutsuka, and voila, you have a better fighter of the striking arts. Basically an MMA.

Keep looking!

[Adonis]

Edited) In all seriousness its important to learn to spawl. Stirking doesn't always work when some one tries to grab you. I would chance kneeing them when they shoot in on you. It woudl be better to sprawl and get back to the feet or sprawl on top of them and hold'em down and throw knee's that way. That is a very effective way to use knee's against a grappler. By combining them with a sprawl.

Edited November 10, 2005 by Adonis