Wado Ryu to Shotokan - seems more basic

[NeilT]

Hi

I did Wado Ryu style karate some 11 yrs back and achieved a 5kyu after 2 years.

I've recently found a good local club teaching Shotokan and after some months slotted in where I left of - 5th kyu. Which i'm more than happy with. Katas are very similar, as is the general style, despite the stances being lower.

However, our Shotokan Karate seems to lack several of the aspects we previously trained in at Wado Ryu- i.e ground work, takedowns, holds, throws etc. Plus the available strikes seem more limited. Is this normal for Shotokan, or is this something I should raise with my Sensei?

Thanks

Neil

[SenseiMike]

I'm not sure if it's the norm these days or not. There's a lot of bad shotokan shcools out there. But in my school (shotokan) we're very heavy on take downs and ground work. I guess it just dpends on the school tho, We practice all of the kata with sweeps & throws, and utlize a variety of hits.

[jion]

When Otsuka originally left Funakoshi's Shotokan he was already - as far as I know - awarded headmastership of Shindo Yoshin Ryu Ju-Jitsu.

Wado is more about very light and fast techniques, whereas Shotokan (at least Gigo's version) is more about brutal strength, full on attacks (see Shotokan's darkest history). Traditionally there will be more grappling and groundwork in Wado then Shotokan.

Nowadays there are a lot of slightly different versions of Shotokan (arguably none of them carry on the original thoughts of Gichin), so dojos vary. Like SenseiMike said they do groundwork. At my school I don't recall ever doing any.

[Why_Worry]

I do wado ryu and we dont really do that much groudn work but i dont really h ave any refference point as to what a lot is. We just do mostly basics and stuff liek that but in a couple of the higher level belt block/counters i have been taught there ere sweeps/takedowns. Also i think for one of the other belts there are a couple of takedowns from when your on the ground and someone is attacking you and their standing, but yeah. I'm not relaly sure what but i saw the words Wado Ryu and this is the first time i have ever seen someone talk about it on this website so i had to read it.

[24fightingchickens]

Is this normal for Shotokan, or is this something I should raise with my Sensei?

Thanks

Neil

Neil,

This is normal for a shotokan class, imo. The standard loadout for a shotokan class is stretching out, marching up and down the floor doing stepping basic techniques, doing one step sparring for a while, doing some kata at the end, stretching out, and going home. 9 out of 10 times I bet that is about what you will find in any Shotokan club. The guys who mix in jujutsu are few and far between.

[SenseiMike]

Is this normal for Shotokan, or is this something I should raise with my Sensei?

Thanks

Neil

Neil,

This is normal for a shotokan class, imo. The standard loadout for a shotokan class is stretching out, marching up and down the floor doing stepping basic techniques, doing one step sparring for a while, doing some kata at the end, stretching out, and going home. 9 out of 10 times I bet that is about what you will find in any Shotokan club. The guys who mix in jujutsu are few and far between.

Sadly you're correct.

But I wouldn't say we're mixing in Ju-jutsu, I'm not, never taken one class in it or judo or any other grappling system.

Funakoshi speaks of the grappling aspect of Karate in everyone of his books, I find the moves in the kata, and I execute them. To me that's karate, punching kicking, chopping, sweeping, and throwing are all part of karate. In my opion, if you're not practicing every one of those techniques, then your not practicing real karate.

[jion]

...standard loadout for a shotokan class is stretching out, marching up and down the floor doing stepping basic techniques, doing one step sparring for a while, doing some kata at the end, stretching out, and going home

That's similar to a lot of martial arts. AFAIK, that's how TKD is taught as well.

Just a side note, it was "Seargeant" Yabu Kentsu Norimichi (1863-1937) who came up with that idea of doing linework, obviously from his military background. He also considered one of Okinawa's greatest fighters and was even a legend while he was alive. He trained in shorin-ryu style of karate under Itosu und Matsumura (whose style later became Shotokan) and was the only known person to have defeated Motobu Choki.

o me that's karate, punching kicking, chopping, sweeping, and throwing are all part of karate. In my opion, if you're not practicing every one of those techniques, then your not practicing real karate.

The only reason why linework was really used was to teach karate quickly and as efficiently as possible. Usually large groups of people were trained at one point. I recall Funakoshi only 3 or 5 people in the beginning, and I seriously doubt they did linework as we know it now.

[y2_sub]

Since wado's founder was originally a jujitsu practitioner , it is normal that it contains more throws and takedowns than most other karate styles

[Sho-ju]

We do full throws, sweeps and takedowns. Light ground work with mma gloves. Shotokan is a great base to work from but most schools never take it beyond the marching 24 wrote about.

[pers]

Shotokan is a complete martial art form ,all aspects of self defence are there in the katas ,what is necessary is a good master to show and teach them ,so it goes down to quality .shotokan being one of the biggest has grown thin and it is harder to find a good club but it is worth the effort !

marching up and down is the tip of the icebirg and those who never go beyond that stage certainly miss the bigger picture.