a puncher versus a grappler...for you UFC/Pride and mma guys

[elbows_and_knees]

everyone assumes that you want to hold or submit in a streetfight... this is NOT the case. If you do take the fight to the ground, you don't submit them - you snap their limb. The idea isn't to go to the ground (take some bjj self defense and you will see this) but to be able to finish quickly and get up efficiently if you DO happed to go to the ground.

[SubGrappler]

Also, I dont think holding on to a guy on the ground in a real-life fight would be the way to go.

If someone comes to aid your attacker but you guys are holding on to the attacker and he's holding on to you, you will get beaten by his friends

Even if you're NOT holding on to your opponent and someone comes to his aid you're still going to be beaten by his friends.

So, in the event that someone attempts to hold you for one of his friends to pound on you, you'd be happy if you knew how to grapple so that you'd know how to escape from his hold.

[Kajukenbopr]

Also, I dont think holding on to a guy on the ground in a real-life fight would be the way to go.

If someone comes to aid your attacker but you guys are holding on to the attacker and he's holding on to you, you will get beaten by his friends

Even if you're NOT holding on to your opponent and someone comes to his aid you're still going to be beaten by his friends.

So, in the event that someone attempts to hold you for one of his friends to pound on you, you'd be happy if you knew how to grapple so that you'd know how to escape from his hold.

Well, but I'd rather it be someone caught me off guard , held me and then I got beat, than getting beat because I was tryign to hold on to someone.

Lol, if I'm outnumbered and cant wint I can always run ( as long as nothing is holding me back-be it a person or a wall )

[Adonis]

yeah but when you go do that "hold on" thing you mentioned it isn't just holding on and doing nothing your going for something. to put pain or disable the attacker. if you just hold on the person and do nothing with your postion or your postion then you deserve to get beat by the attackers friends.

[h2whoa]

Strikers have a larger strike zone. If you can pick off you grappling opponent piece by piece than you will win. Lennox Lewis is a good example of this. A grappler cant take his shot if hes out of range!!

[AndrewGreen]

I think you'd be surprised of the range of a shot...

But, what top grapplers has Lennox Lewis won against?

[h2whoa]

Lennox lewis has not fought a grappler, what i is that he uses his reach to wear his opponents down.

Is a shot as effective from outside of kicking range, than from inside.

[SubGrappler]

Lennox lewis has not fought a grappler, what i is that he uses his reach to wear his opponents down.

Is a shot as effective from outside of kicking range, than from inside.

You're not going to keep a grappler "at bay" with jabs or kicks.

The range required to shot in on an opponent is the same required to punch or kick- in other words, if you can touch your opponent, thats when you know you're close enough to shoot for a takedown- any further away and you dont have a chance for a takedown (unless you're Mark Kerr )

In boxing and kickboxing there is a such thing as "kicking range" and "punching range." In MMA, you're either in range to attack or not. A puncher will always prefer to punch- jabs from a distance, hooks in close. A kicker will always prefer to kick- roundhouse kicks from a distance, knees from in close, and a grappler will always prefer to grapple- shots from a distance, clinch from in close. (in close= the clinch).

Lennox Lewis can do what he does because there are rules against clinching in boxing. The boxers he fought such as Mike Tyson, wouldnt have a problem with getting in close on him so much as they had a problem getting in close and hitting him.

[AndrewGreen]

Lennox lewis has not fought a grappler, what i is that he uses his reach to wear his opponents down.

Is a shot as effective from outside of kicking range, than from inside.

So, you are using someone that has never fought a grappler as the example of how someone should fight a grappler...?

Don't you think this would be a more effective argument if you used someone that has actually succeeded at this against a grappler?

[White Warlock]

Dancing against a grappler is asking for a takedown. The means for a striker to have any chance against a grappler, is to get busy and get often. If a grappler cannot play your game, then stop sparring... and just do as much damage as possible in as short a time as possible.

The actions of a boxer are for a boxing ring, with rules to define just how they can and cannot fight. I boxed, i wrestled, i did a few other things. Rules hamper a person's ability to do 'everything' they can do... but they also define how they fight. I learned early on that rules actually 'trained' me to not do certain things, so that when i stepped out of the ring and back into a different scene, i had developed bad habits. Habits of ettiquette.

There is no ettiquette in the street. There is a 'little' ettiquette in the UFC. What you will not find in the UFC are the rules that Lenox Lewis has become accustomed to. What boxers have already encountered in the UFC is that they end up on the ground, and end up getting submitted.