a puncher versus a grappler...for you UFC/Pride and mma guys

[Infrazael]

My Sihing learned Muay Thai from Maurice Smith for about 5-6 years before stopping Muay Thai. He said it was very good.

[Jay]

puncher the grappler would be hit and protecting himself before he even gets the chance to get in close

[SubGrappler]

puncher the grappler would be hit and protecting himself before he even gets the chance to get in close

The grappler would get in close and protect himself before the puncher even has a chance to unload

[KempoTiger]

Liddel, Silva, Belfort, Maurice Smith...

Just to name a few off the top of my head. Lots of top guys like to win by strikes.

It's not a matter of which you do, you need to be able to control where the fight takes place, and that means knowing a good deal of both even if you specialize in one.

There are no pure grapplers or strikers fighting anymore, It started that way, but has evolved into a distinct system of fighting.

What you are talking about isn't grappler vs Striker, it is Submission vs KO. Everyone that wants any chance has to be able to move and defend effectively from any position. The better fighter is the one who can control which positions the fight takes place in, and has an advantage in the one that it does.

Very well put...and I'll add in a real life situation where my life is in danger I won't go for the KO, I'll go for cripple or the kill. Both much easier to do than KOing and submitting combined if you ask me.

[elbows_and_knees]

Liddel, Silva, Belfort, Maurice Smith...

Just to name a few off the top of my head. Lots of top guys like to win by strikes.

It's not a matter of which you do, you need to be able to control where the fight takes place, and that means knowing a good deal of both even if you specialize in one.

There are no pure grapplers or strikers fighting anymore, It started that way, but has evolved into a distinct system of fighting.

What you are talking about isn't grappler vs Striker, it is Submission vs KO. Everyone that wants any chance has to be able to move and defend effectively from any position. The better fighter is the one who can control which positions the fight takes place in, and has an advantage in the one that it does.

with the exception of smith, every fighter you named has an extensive grappling history. They prefer strikes but are very accomplished grapplers. THAT is why their striking is so effective.

[elbows_and_knees]

Very well put...and I'll add in a real life situation where my life is in danger I won't go for the KO, I'll go for cripple or the kill. Both much easier to do than KOing and submitting combined if you ask me.

not always as easy as "going for the cripple" a lot of crippling places are smaller and / or more mobile, making them harder to hit accurately. I have a better chance of hitting your facial region than I do hitting your throat, for example. I can kick your leg from any angle much easier than I can hit your knee head on while it is extended, etc.

Also, if you are in the street, it's not about submitting. you just snap the limb and keep going, you don't submit them.

Lastly, there is also the issue of rules (yes, in real life situations) for example, I have a night job as a bouncer at a popular club - we aren't allowed to strike, but we can grapple. So, my life is in danger daily, but I can't "go for the cripple or the kill"

[KempoTiger]

not always as easy as "going for the cripple" a lot of crippling places are smaller and / or more mobile, making them harder to hit accurately. I have a better chance of hitting your facial region than I do hitting your throat, for example. I can kick your leg from any angle much easier than I can hit your knee head on while it is extended, etc.

But I'll also be going for that facial shot. But not in an attempt to ground and pound you, but to rather get you to expose your neck so I can crush it. Or so that you stumble a step back so I can stomp on the side of your knee.

Also, if you are in the street, it's not about submitting. you just snap the limb and keep going, you don't submit them.

My going for the "cripple" comment encompassed this theory. I'd never try to go for an arm bar or lock, but rather just hyperextend/break it if I felt I was truly in life threatening danger.

Lastly, there is also the issue of rules (yes, in real life situations) for example, I have a night job as a bouncer at a popular club - we aren't allowed to strike, but we can grapple. So, my life is in danger daily, but I can't "go for the cripple or the kill"

you can't punch?? ugh...sorry man, that sucks. I hope you're a big guy

[SubGrappler]

But I'll also be going for that facial shot. But not in an attempt to ground and pound you, but to rather get you to expose your neck so I can crush it. Or so that you stumble a step back so I can stomp on the side of your knee.

These are still difficult areas to hit. Most intelligent strikers will fight with their chin tucked and jaw low (so as to protect against a KO). Chances are much higher of knocking someone out than say, killing them with a punch to the throat. Im not saying what you're attempting wont work, Im just saying you'll more than likely end up hitting the guy right on the button rather than in the throat. Someone who doesnt tuck their chin can be dropped with either a shot to the jaw or to the throat- in either case he wasnt thinking. A ko is just as good as a crippling attack- all you need to do is curb stomp your unconcious victim after he falls to gain the same effect.

My going for the "cripple" comment encompassed this theory. I'd never try to go for an arm bar or lock, but rather just hyperextend/break it if I felt I was truly in life threatening danger.

Hyperextending/breaking a limb is exactly what armbars/joint locks do. Thats what they're supposed to do, they werent made to make an opponent tap out.

Lastly, there is also the issue of rules (yes, in real life situations) for example, I have a night job as a bouncer at a popular club - we aren't allowed to strike, but we can grapple. So, my life is in danger daily, but I can't "go for the cripple or the kill"

you can't punch?? ugh...sorry man, that sucks. I hope you're a big guy

That brings up another topic. There are times that you may be involved in an altercation, but it wouldnt be life threatening. In these cases thats when you feel comfortable being able to incapacitate someone will less serious results.

[AndrewGreen]

with the exception of smith, every fighter you named has an extensive grappling history. They prefer strikes but are very accomplished grapplers. THAT is why their striking is so effective.

Exactly, part of being a good striker is being able to fight in the clinch and on the ground, being able to stand up / break away when needed, and fight effectively from anywhere.

Same as for someone that want to be primarily a grappler.

Grapplers had the advantage that they already did this. A Grappler trains a seperated postion, in the clinch and all positions on the ground. Anyone that wants to fight, whether they like to hit or look for subs, NEEDS to be able to do that.

[AndrewGreen]

A ko is just as good as a crippling attack- all you need to do is curb stomp your unconcious victim after he falls to gain the same effect.

err....

Well, that's all well and good, but if they are unconscious what's the point? A part from making sure you get in some legal trouble afterwards?