is tai chi a grapple or strikeing style

[william_whitten]

i need to know becuse me and my friend are debating about it

[YODA]

If it's either then it's striking

 

Anything that resembl;es "Grappling" is more akin to "redirection" rather than actual grappling. A bit like calling Aikido a grappling art - which IMHO it isn't.

 

 

[Karateka_latino]

I've been wondering If those Internal kung fu styles, Tai Chi, Bagua, Hsing-I, are usefull for a REAL streetfight. I mean on a bar, on an alley, with broken bottles and thrash cans and chairs, etc..

 

Anyone?

 

[Shaolin]

On 2002-03-19 21:46, SubmissionFighter wrote:

 

I've been wondering If those Internal kung fu styles, Tai Chi, Bagua, Hsing-I, are usefull for a REAL streetfight. I mean on a bar, on an alley, with broken bottles and thrash cans and chairs, etc..

 

Anyone?

 

 

The general training regimen for an internal style is, correct me if I'm wrong anyone, about 12-18 years. Many Chinese styles traditionally do not 'spar'. The reason for this is that it is assumed that a student with only a few years training is not yet ready for combat. Before fighting the student, even in traditional Wing Chun is expected to finish the system. If the student begins to fight before he completes the system he will be missing key parts and develop distorted technique.

 

In Wing Chun, which is not in my opinion a true internal style, the student is not supposed to be 'a fighter' until he has finished the entire system, here system = training e.g. finish the training before fighting. This is the philosophy of many Chinese systems. We, in the instant coffee world have decided that 5, 8, 12 or 18 years is much too long to wait to develop fighting skills and so we take short cuts, with mixed but mostly poor results.

 

Traditional Chinese internal systems are very involved and make severe demands on the student, such as, high levels of relaxation in combat, precision movement in combat and precise timing in combat. If the movements, energy and postures in these systems did not work over the many years they were passed down in China they would have died out long ago. I believe these internal systems can work very well if trained properly and for the proper time, with the proper instruction and dedication. But training in an internal style is not an easy or short road to self defense.

 

As far as grappling/striking as I understand the definition in the 4 ranges of combat in JKD, these internal systems use all four ranges, hence their complexity. Tai Chi means Grand Ultimate and as in all internal styles its combat scope is enormous.

 

_________________

 

 

Moy Yat Ving Tsun

 

Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu

 

[ This Message was edited by: Shaolin on 2002-03-20 05:40 ]

[SBN Doug]

I don't personally think even 18 yrs is too long to "complete" a system. However, I do think it's too long to not be able to defend yourself with ANY of what you learned along the way. I can't lock myself away in a monestary, or go live out in the forrest until I know the entire system.

 

I bow to those that have the time and dedication to do so, I'm sure they are awesome to see. However, I have a family to support while I train.

[SaiFightsMS]

There is more than one type of Tai Chi. And some do have some moves that can be applied as grappling techniques.

 

 

[striking_cobra]

interesting...i do however think that you would be able to use what you learn along the way to defend yourself...i doubt seriously that someone would have to complete the system entirely before they could defend themselves.

 

that's just rediculous to think so.

 

 

[Arts_not_Brutality]

There is a part of Tai chi called pushing hands, if I'm not mistaken, which I believe is more combat oriented. Does anyone know more about this?

[Buddhas flower]

 

 

Yes, there is an emphasis on push-hands. I am a nejia practioner for the past year and a half and push-hands does comprise a good portion of it. I spoke with on of the senior students who has been studying tai chi, bagua, and Hsing-I for 5 years now and I keep asking him what is the purpose behind push-hands since push-hands is NOT combat and what does push-hands teach us when we are to come into real combat or fighting, and this was his response.

 

" What am I learning by doing push-hands if it is not combat orientated? Well I learn How to control the intensity of the strike even though in push-hands the strikes are not full strength. I'm also teaching myself and my motor functions not to stray from a target, but to try and hit dead on (unless it's too vital of a point. I'm not out to wreck my training partner or else I wouldn't have anybody to train with.). I'm also teaching my motor functions not to hesitate when an opening reveals itself. When our teachers strikes at me hits me, I'm learning to absorb, redirect, or be able to deal with that kind of pressure and intensity. When the **** hits the fan, there are two things that I want to be able to do in regards to my opponent striking me. One, be able to take it and keep going, and two, be somewhat accustomed to trying to deal with full speed strikes for absorption (recycling the energy/using it to my advantage), or redirection. So does it bother me when our teacher strikes me kind of hard, wrenches on my wrist and throws me to the ground. To a point. The only point that bugs me is One worry: Am I good enough to handle it at that moment? So I prepare my body, my receiving skills, and my mind to take that kind of stuff."

 

Again, this is just the opinion of a senior student in my class and that of our instructor. Personally, I sometimes feel that push-hands isn't going to be effective in combat, but while in combat, I would never attempt things that I do in push-hands, for combat purposes.

 

Push-hands is a learning tool for being able to get a feeling for energy types and body-dynamics. some if not all the principles can be used in combat, but one is not doing specific techniques, just specific energy types that manifest themselves through different postures and movemets. Do any other practioners in the internal arts have a different out look?

 

 

 

 

[stonecrusher69]

One of the problems with the internal styles like Tai chi is that most people don't practice it as an martial art and many people don't know it is.They have become health arts .Bagua and hsing-I are for the most part still taught as an martial art but it is hard to find someone who has masterd the system.Internal styles do take a much longer time to be able to use in combat because it take a long time to develope internal componets like internal forse which takes a lot time to develope people don't have the patients for.