Mixing techniques?

[nanfeishen]

Why do so many people wish to mix their styles nowadays ? , Have you no faith in the styles in which you train ?, and if you have no faith in your style how do you ever think you will be good enough in that style ?.

When you get to a level in your style that you know all the forms/ kata for that system, and you can do them all with absolute profficency, then and only then should you be at a level where you can pick up holes or gaps in the art you are studying , if you are anything less than 10 years in training , and you are already finding things that in your opinion are wrong or lacking, or missing or not emphasised enough , then it is simple, you are doing the wrong art.

Whichever art you choose, if you have no faith in the effectiveness of the art, you will always only be mediocre, you need to have absolute and utter faith in what you are doing , no doubts ,no jealousy of other techniques, no lack of focus because it lacks this or that, absolute faith.

When you have that, no other style or technique can touch what you do.

[Kajukenbopr]

OK! Nin Tai, good point on the food stuff. And I think we agree you need a good foundation (base) to build on.

Like what you had to say about principals. Technique is important to get that foundation. Once the foundation is there, you need something that allows your thinking to build and help you be creative. Build individuality. If all you are taught is technique after technique the evolution of the arts stops. A strong base founded on concepts helps us to be creative in our own style and in mixing techniques and other styles without disturbing that base.

The shooting analogy was right on the money.

this is like asking, do you master your style? and at which point do you already "master" your foundation art?

thats the questionable part to most martial artists, they THINK they've mastered their arts just because of having a rank, or because they have won this or that tournament.

what have u already mastered?

[Kajukenbopr]

Why do so many people wish to mix their styles nowadays ? , Have you no faith in the styles in which you train ?, and if you have no faith in your style how do you ever think you will be good enough in that style ?.

When you get to a level in your style that you know all the forms/ kata for that system, and you can do them all with absolute profficency, then and only then should you be at a level where you can pick up holes or gaps in the art you are studying , if you are anything less than 10 years in training , and you are already finding things that in your opinion are wrong or lacking, or missing or not emphasised enough , then it is simple, you are doing the wrong art.

Whichever art you choose, if you have no faith in the effectiveness of the art, you will always only be mediocre, you need to have absolute and utter faith in what you are doing , no doubts ,no jealousy of other techniques, no lack of focus because it lacks this or that, absolute faith.

When you have that, no other style or technique can touch what you do.

I agree completely

[bokendowanderer]

Why do so many people wish to mix their styles nowadays ? , Have you no faith in the styles in which you train ?, and if you have no faith in your style how do you ever think you will be good enough in that style ?.

When you get to a level in your style that you know all the forms/ kata for that system, and you can do them all with absolute profficency, then and only then should you be at a level where you can pick up holes or gaps in the art you are studying , if you are anything less than 10 years in training , and you are already finding things that in your opinion are wrong or lacking, or missing or not emphasised enough , then it is simple, you are doing the wrong art.

Whichever art you choose, if you have no faith in the effectiveness of the art, you will always only be mediocre, you need to have absolute and utter faith in what you are doing , no doubts ,no jealousy of other techniques, no lack of focus because it lacks this or that, absolute faith.

When you have that, no other style or technique can touch what you do.

I agree completely

So! Kajukenbopr! Where did Kajukenbo come from. I had no idea what kajukenbo was until about 3 minutes after I read your last two posts. I did a little google search and found something enteresting.

Before I go on, I mean no disrespect to your style or its FOUNDERS. All five of them. Also, since I don't know the relationship of the person(s) responsible for the article I read, if it is not an acurate account I apologize.

According to the article, the founders are Peter Young Yil Choo (Tong Soo Do), Frank Ordonez (Se Keino Ryu) Judo, Joe Holck (Kodenkan Danzan Ryu) jujitsu, Adriano Emperado (Kosho Ryu) kenpo, and Clarence Chang (Chu'an Fa Kung Fu) Chinese boxing. Five men, five different style. According to the article, the style was founded in 1947. Only 61 years ago.

Did any of these guys have faith in their own style? Why did they think they needed to combine these five styles? What, from each of there styles did they not like, if anything?

I'm sure they all had complete faith in their styles. As I do in Hapkido, Bokendo, and Tai Chi, which I study. All have differing and similar techniques. All have differing and similar principals. They all have some techniques and principals that I prefer over others. Both within each style and between the different styles.

I agree. If you have no faith in your art and you are finding things that in your opinion are wrong or lacking, or missing or not emphasised enough , then it is simple, you are doing the wrong art.

But, I don't believe we all mix arts because we have no faith in one art or another.

[Goju_boi]

My Sensei gave a little advice the other day that made me think. Someone had said that theres an upcoming seminar with ppl of various Okinawan styles soon. Afterwards my sensei said that it was a good experience to see it b/c u see the way other karate styles do things even though theyre from the same island. Also he said it's good to experience otheer styles besides karate, so u can see wut's out there and learn from it. I agree with him b/c of u limit yourself to just wut your style offers, it's like being that sheltered private school kid that doesn't know wut's out there in the real world. Just my two cents.

[Kajukenbopr]

Why do so many people wish to mix their styles nowadays ? , Have you no faith in the styles in which you train ?, and if you have no faith in your style how do you ever think you will be good enough in that style ?.

When you get to a level in your style that you know all the forms/ kata for that system, and you can do them all with absolute profficency, then and only then should you be at a level where you can pick up holes or gaps in the art you are studying , if you are anything less than 10 years in training , and you are already finding things that in your opinion are wrong or lacking, or missing or not emphasised enough , then it is simple, you are doing the wrong art.

Whichever art you choose, if you have no faith in the effectiveness of the art, you will always only be mediocre, you need to have absolute and utter faith in what you are doing , no doubts ,no jealousy of other techniques, no lack of focus because it lacks this or that, absolute faith.

When you have that, no other style or technique can touch what you do.

I agree completely

So! Kajukenbopr! Where did Kajukenbo come from. I had no idea what kajukenbo was until about 3 minutes after I read your last two posts. I did a little google search and found something enteresting.

Before I go on, I mean no disrespect to your style or its FOUNDERS. All five of them. Also, since I don't know the relationship of the person(s) responsible for the article I read, if it is not an acurate account I apologize.

According to the article, the founders are Peter Young Yil Choo (Tong Soo Do), Frank Ordonez (Se Keino Ryu) Judo, Joe Holck (Kodenkan Danzan Ryu) jujitsu, Adriano Emperado (Kosho Ryu) kenpo, and Clarence Chang (Chu'an Fa Kung Fu) Chinese boxing. Five men, five different style. According to the article, the style was founded in 1947. Only 61 years ago.

Did any of these guys have faith in their own style? Why did they think they needed to combine these five styles? What, from each of there styles did they not like, if anything?

I'm sure they all had complete faith in their styles. As I do in Hapkido, Bokendo, and Tai Chi, which I study. All have differing and similar techniques. All have differing and similar principals. They all have some techniques and principals that I prefer over others. Both within each style and between the different styles.

I agree. If you have no faith in your art and you are finding things that in your opinion are wrong or lacking, or missing or not emphasised enough , then it is simple, you are doing the wrong art.

But, I don't believe we all mix arts because we have no faith in one art or another.

In Kajukenbo's case it wasnt exactly a lack of faith in the art, but the desire to overcome any attacker in any circumstance by employing martial arts designed for the individual, not the master.

Mixing Karate(korean kicks), Judo and jujitsu's throws, locks, and joint manipulations, Kenpo's hard and very fast hand strikes,( along with any hit that works for you) working together with Kung Fu and Boxing made Kajukenbo a perfect martial art that emphazised on effective and comfortable techniques that would "always" work- not just in specific circumstances.

The 5 founders made a different art that would not take years of learning in order to be effective and that could change the approach for different types of attacker, including armed ones. Also, one art instead of having to teach 5 separately which would not only take more time but would also bring conflicting points of view if taught separately.

Not a traditionalist, Kajukenbo takes whatever works and uses it, looking only for the extremes in efficiency, if it will work only sometimes, it is discarded or broken down to something more simple and useful.

Hope this helps you start your understanding on this art.

[bokendowanderer]

The 5 founders made a different art that would not take years of learning in order to be effective and that could change the approach for different types of attacker, including armed ones. Also, one art instead of having to teach 5 separately which would not only take more time but would also bring conflicting points of view if taught separately.

[bokendowanderer]

bokendowanderer wrote:

Kajukenbopr wrote:

nanfeishen wrote:

Why do so many people wish to mix their styles nowadays ?

In Kajukenbo's case it wasnt exactly a lack of faith in the art, but the desire to overcome any attacker in any circumstance by employing martial arts designed for the individual, not the master.

Mixing Karate(korean kicks), Judo and jujitsu's throws, locks, and joint manipulations, Kenpo's hard and very fast hand strikes,( along with any hit that works for you) working together with Kung Fu and Boxing made Kajukenbo a perfect martial art that emphazised on effective and comfortable techniques that would "always" work- not just in specific circumstances.

The 5 founders made a different art that would not take years of learning in order to be effective and that could change the approach for different types of attacker, including armed ones. Also, one art instead of having to teach 5 separately which would not only take more time but would also bring conflicting points of view if taught separately.

Not a traditionalist, Kajukenbo takes whatever works and uses it, looking only for the extremes in efficiency, if it will work only sometimes, it is discarded or broken down to something more simple and useful.

Hope this helps you start your understanding on this art.

Thanks! Great Post. Kajukenbo sounds like a very affective system. I WILL be looking deeper into it.

Excuse my lack of knowledge on use of the "quote" feature. Its gona take some time.

[John Bishop]

Kajukenbopr gave a excellent explanation for the "why" Kajukenbo was founded.

One also has to understand the circumstances of the people,times, and place.

The founders themselves were young men in their 20's. A age when young men are more interested in the fighting aspects of martial arts, then the philosophical parts of the arts.

Hawaii in the 40's-50's is a place full of servicemen, some looking for any reason to fight. Hawaii is also a cultural melting pot with immigrants from mainland America, China, Japan, Okinawa, Philipines, Korea, Samoa, Indonesia, and other places. This is a double edged sword. ln that there is a richness of martial arts found no where else in the world. But also in some cases there is racial tension which leads to hostility and fighting.

The founders were men of differant races, who became great friends and shared their martial arts knowledge with each other. Adriano Emperado and Frank Ordanez were of Filipino descent. Peter Y.Y. Choo was of Korean descent. George "Clarence" Chang was Chinese. And Joe Holck was of Japanese descent (his true name was Joichi Matsuno, but he changed it after the bombing of Pearl Harbor caused anti-Japanese sentiments.).

They basically wanted to design the most complete self defense system they could, by mixing techniques from 7 fighting systems. ("Kajukenbo" is named for the five main arts of the founders, but it also contains some techniques from escrima and western boxing).

[bokendowanderer]

Thanks for the cultural info and links. I'm interested in finding out more about your style. I think I read on the sight I visited that one of the founders studied Danzan Ryu Aikijitsu. I've studied some online literature about that style and there are some mentions of bokkendo. They don't say much.

I've been trying to find information on Bokkendo (Bokendo), which I am a 5th dan in. I realize that there may be different systems using that name. If you have any info, I would be greatful.

As far as I know, my instructor had no written history and what I have is what he told me. He passed away several years ago. I'm the only person I know who is actively practicing the system I was taught.

P.S. You should be able to email me. I placed my address in my profile.