whats your views on annual contracts / monthly direct debit

[ovine king]

what we call "direct debit" in the uk is a fixed payment system that protects both parties; it isn't a direct line into your account.

the other party has no way of increasing the amount taken, nor can they change the interval of payments, hence, what you describe earlier regarding them being able to simply empty your account, doesn't happen here.

[kivikala]

being somewhat old-school (ya know BC... before Computers) I personally do not like automated payments, and certainly not contracts.

That being said, I can understand certain schools needs to have say... short term (ie 3 month) contracts but anything like a year should be voluntary and not a 1st choice. I'd love to have student pay a years dues upfront! But reality is most won't last for 30 days never mind 12 months. Manditory time payments (as per contract) would have me (as the student) worrying more about if I am getting my monies worth than concentrating on learning. I don't think I am far off the norm here.

As for automatic bank transfers, how out of control of your life do you like to live? Money and martial arts, I donno, somehow the two have to get along.

[24fightingchickens]

what we call "direct debit" in the uk is a fixed payment system that protects both parties; it isn't a direct line into your account.

the other party has no way of increasing the amount taken, nor can they change the interval of payments, hence, what you describe earlier regarding them being able to simply empty your account, doesn't happen here.

Consumer advocacy groups have been working for some time to overhaul the direct debit process as it exists in US banks. Currently, no amount is stipulated when access to electronic transactions is granted.

In fact, and this may surprise some, if you give anyone access to direct deposit into your account in the US, they also have total power to withdraw all funds from your account either through some error or more sinister motivation.

Anyone who has your account number, a signed form giving permission to electronically access your account, and your bank's routing number can withdraw all of your money.

I think some more security is called for there.

[AngelaG]

what we call "direct debit" in the uk is a fixed payment system that protects both parties; it isn't a direct line into your account.

the other party has no way of increasing the amount taken, nor can they change the interval of payments, hence, what you describe earlier regarding them being able to simply empty your account, doesn't happen here.

Direct debit is not a static amount, hence why it can be used for phone bills etc. which may change every month. The company with your direct debit details can take out whatever they wish. Standing order is a static amount and is much safer. For anything where the amount will not be altered standing order is a much more secure option. You just have to remember to cancel it when finsihed, before the next payment comes out!

I had a direct debit with Tiscali through my credit card a few years back. Imagine my shock when I read my statement one month and they had made an unauthorised withdrawal from my credit card, leaving me over my limit. It took ages to sort out as well

[Half Full]

Contracts are desigmed to ensure profit. Most schools try to justify contracts by placing the responsibilty on students. I've heard phrases used such as "this will make sure your serious about taking lessons" or "it usually takes three months to decide if our style is a fit with you." The truth is they bind you, and then regardless of circumstance they can collect their money.

[24fightingchickens]

Contracts are desigmed to ensure profit. Most schools try to justify contracts by placing the responsibilty on students. I've heard phrases used such as "this will make sure your serious about taking lessons" or "it usually takes three months to decide if our style is a fit with you." The truth is they bind you, and then regardless of circumstance they can collect their money.

Yes. The purpose of a contract from the business's perspective is to reduce churn - churn meaning the tendency of customers to leave. Churn rates are usually tracked by companies and attempts are made to reduce the rate of churn.

Putting people on a contract binds them and prevents them from churning as quickly, reducing churn rates, which increases revenue.

I agree with you that the typical reasons given for contracts to students tend to try to lay the blame for having them at their feet. Instead, perhaps karate clubs could undertake to study why they have such churn, and then make changes in their practices rather than simply trying to trap people in with them.

The problem is that most karate businesses view their curriculum and approach as being superior to the methods that would retain more students, and through this stubborn insistence on trying to run a business that is intentionally designed to not have mass appeal, they end up running counter to themselves and eventually burning out.

Huge karate schools are successful because they are willing to do to their classes what their customers want, rather than offer only karate that they think is "the best karate."

[Eric_]

Paying monthly, particularly by EFT, can be a great convinience. no papers, no forgotten payments. I pay monthly at my school, and have never had a problem. Of course, i know my instructor to be an honest and reasonable person, so just make sure you aren't dealing with anyone "shady." it's testing fees that i have a problem with . . . but i'll complain about that on another thread!

[granmasterchen]

If I enter a school and they even mention contracts....I say, "thanks for your time, I don't play that game, good luck with your BUSINESS"

martial arts shouldn't be a business, it should be teaching an art....you should do it because you want to teach the next generation, not for the money.

[24fightingchickens]

martial arts shouldn't be a business, it should be teaching an art....you should do it because you want to teach the next generation, not for the money.

I can understand that you don't want to study martial arts in a business, but I would not go so far as to say that martial arts schools should not be businesses. That word "should" usually doesn't have anything behind it to back it up, imo, and is best avoided. Perhaps what you really mean to say is that you simply don't think martial arts and business mix well in your experience.

I have no problem with a martial arts business. I think they are a great idea for someone who wants to earn a living and teach martial arts. I also don't have a problem with a business using contracts, discounts, and all sorts of other business practices to increase revenue.

I just don't want to do karate in such a place myself. I have a feeling you really meant to say the same thing.

In 1955, the first commercial Japanese karate dojo was opened in Yotsuya, Japan. A bunch of university professors dropped out of the JKA over it - protesting the making of money using karate. And yet they made money as professors teaching all sorts of different subjects. So, anything but this one subject can be taught professionally? I think they were a little envious that their colleagues were going to get to do karate all day and reap the benefits of the constant training in a way that they never would.

I cannot imagine any other reason to protest someone making a living doing what they love.

[Jeff604]

Maybe this question is politically incorrect, but I'll ask anyway : talking about money, how much are the fees in your dojo ?

For mine it is 130 Euros (160$) for children, 160 (195$) for students and 200 (245$) for adults per year.