Ahhh I cant take it anymore(George Dillman Rant)

[KempoTiger]

I don't know anything about Mr. Dillman, but if he believes his no-touch KO works as it has be represented in this forum, he should go try to claim his $1,000,000 from the James Randi Educational Foundation: http://www.randi.org/research/index.html.

I'm glad this topic was created. This kind of pseudo-spiritual flakiness makes the whole martial arts community look ridiculous. I don't think comparing it to such things as faith healing, astrology, or theraputic touch is a stretch at all.

There is enough misunderstanding about martial arts outside our community that if we don't call these folks out ourselves, then we get lumped in with them. I, for one, have gotten a great deal of personal benefit from the martial arts and I'd hate to see someone turn away from it because of the self-delusional claims, or worse, outright lies, of a fringe element.

One of his students did go for the Randi prize.....and failed miserably. Couldn't even budge one person. And from what I hear that test is really professionally done. All different kinds of people, women, men, believers, skeptics, double blind tests. Apparently Dillmans student didn't even get passed the preliminary test.

[SubGrappler]

Pain compliance will work on most individuals as not all people engaged in fights are drunk on alcohol or high on drugs.

I disagree- pain compliance works if you manage to take advantage of the situation before it escalates into a full fledged fight. Once someone has their endorphins flowing through their system, pain compliance is much much more difficult.

My point is not to say that anyone should claim to be a pressure point fighter. My point is to say that pressure points do indeed work as you have pointed out yourself.

I agree, but unfortunately there are many who make that claim with a false impression such as the Dillman canidates.

[MATX1]

It is easy to criticise a man behind his back. I don't see his doubters stepping up to be knocked out.

[SubGrappler]

It is easy to criticise a man behind his back. I don't see his doubters stepping up to be knocked out.

Thats because his stuff doesnt work.

Read the prior posts- hes already been exposed, more times than once.

Stephan Bonner and the rest of Carlson Gracie's team in Chicago did a good job of stepping up to, but not getting knocked out, by Dillmans death touch.

[Gregory]

It is easy to criticise a man behind his back. I don't see his doubters stepping up to be knocked out.

This forum not be his cup of tea, but is open to anyone, so it's hardly behind his back.

I have no pressure point experience, but he or any of his students is welcome to try the no-touch KO on me should they ever want to visit Toronto.

[KempoTiger]

It is easy to criticise a man behind his back. I don't see his doubters stepping up to be knocked out.

As was said above, he's a proven fraud. His knockouts unexplainably seem to only work on his own students. Whenever he tries it on a skeptic and it doesn't work, he makes excuses for himself such as "well your tongue was on the roof of your mouth" or "your big toe was pointed up and it disrupted your chi flow." To that I say...how useful of a skill is it then, that projected lifeforce energy is somehow nullified by shifting ones weight or licking their lips?

As far as his pressure point techniques, I haven't seen them, but I have quite an extensive knowledge of pressure point fighting so I doubt he has anything new to show me, and if it's any inclination towards his "other" talents, I doubt he shows these techniques in a useful realistic fashion.

All to often I find guys who apparently know "pressure points" and then go into a series of techniques - with THEIR student punching in and going along with it - and essentially walk around flopping the uke back and forth like a rag doll by merely pressing into their neck. Or they grab a slow moving punch and then go right into a wrist lock of some sort while pressing the "meridians" along the forearm and bicep.

I'm not saying these points don't exist, or that they're not useful, but the way these self proclaimed pressure point fighters execute them is nothing short of laughable.

[shogeri]

I have practiced under an authentic instructor of pressure point fighting, and it is real, and pressure points are real.

The sad part is that people like Dillman, and other so called "experts" take a little knowledge of something and try to apply it to their own understanding of the martial arts. This creates bad news for those truly looking to find the truth, and or find something that works for them.

The sad part is that any reputable person who knows how to kill someone with a dim mak, isn't going to use it in the first place.

Thus, any open challenges to those people are fruitless.

Only those looking to prove themselves will try for such things.

There is a different between pain compliance (dillman method), pressure point fighting, dim mak application (as implemented in Traditional Fighting Taijiquan), and Japanese pressure point MA systems, such as Ryu Kyu Kempo Karate, Daito Ryu Aikijutsu, etc.

those are my brief thoughts on this...

[SubGrappler]

The sad part is that any reputable person who knows how to kill someone with a dim mak, isn't going to use it in the first place.

Thus, any open challenges to those people are fruitless.

those are my brief thoughts on this...

Heres the question that causes the "stuff" to hit the fan.

Who is to determine who is a reputable person and who is not?

If you're never allowed to use a death touch, how do you in fact know that it works, or that you're even doing it right? How do you know you're even being taught how to do it right if your instructor himself has never used the technique before? Who then becomes the leading authority on something that is completely theoretical?

To me, the whole "too deadly to use" argument is a cop out for people who are either unsure of themselves or their techniques, or know outright that they are teaching false techniques.

I am, of course, referring to any type of "death touch" as opposed to someone who simply uses pressure points.

[shogeri]

I speak of pressure point fighting as used in the system it belongs to and that is taijiquan. They incorporate fajing, which is the powerhouse behind striking to those given areas.

Dillman's techniqes are not what I consider combative fighting, rather submissive, pain compliance coupled with joing locking.

Death touch is a misnomer. It is really called a Death Strike.

I have witnessed knock-out using pressure points, just not the death blows.

I am sure if a person sets up the right sequence it works. At least that is what has been passed down to me.

I suppose that some idiot should sign a waiver saying that they want such done on them, and to allow a practictioner do it to them, just so that there is documented proof.

Just some brief thoughts again...

[KempoTiger]

Heres the question that causes the "stuff" to hit the fan.

Who is to determine who is a reputable person and who is not?

If you're never allowed to use a death touch, how do you in fact know that it works, or that you're even doing it right? How do you know you're even being taught how to do it right if your instructor himself has never used the technique before? Who then becomes the leading authority on something that is completely theoretical?

To me, the whole "too deadly to use" argument is a cop out for people who are either unsure of themselves or their techniques, or know outright that they are teaching false techniques.

Ahh....the timeless argument.

Well my thoughts on this are based soley on the laws of logic and biology. If one were to tell me that they could strike me with a palm strike, and that their chi would stop my heart, then I'd shrug them off.

If one were to tell me that placing a strike to both sides of the heart, causing a shock to the nervous system and thus stop the heart, then I'd be more willing to listen, and learn about the science behind it.

On a side note as Shogeri said, there is a big difference between pain compliance (which most people use pressure points for) and using them as legitimate fighting tools such as in Chin-Na, and most non-competition style MMA schools.

and Shogeri I don't know about the death strikes though. Do they include neck/temple/heart strikes? Or do you intend to somehow hit me in the ribs or arms and kill me?