alsey Posted August 5, 2006 Posted August 5, 2006 one of my friends is in the royal marines, and he's no match for me. i can beat him standing up and on the ground, and i'm nothing special as far as martial artists go. really, they're not the best fighters.i agree with useoforce, the top MMA fighters are the best fighters in the world. at least in the one-on-one ring situation. soldiers train in a lot of disciplines. MMA fighters just train to fight and they're a hell of a lot better at it. "Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
BLueDevil Posted August 6, 2006 Posted August 6, 2006 I like the UFC, i think those guys could definately hold there own in a fight. Most of the techniques are sound and in org like the IVC anything can be done so I think a medium like that is a good way to test skills. I do however agree that while it is "As real as it gets" it isnt exactly like a real fight. but I still do enjoy the UFC and other MMA organizations There is no teacher but the enemy.
Rick_72 Posted August 11, 2006 Posted August 11, 2006 one of my friends is in the royal marines, and he's no match for me. i can beat him standing up and on the ground, and i'm nothing special as far as martial artists go. really, they're not the best fighters.I don't know you or your friend, but I'll bet the reason he's no match for you is because he doesn't want to kill/maim you. I don't know his job description either, as with any military service, all members aren't infantry/special ops guys.I'm a US Marine, and I can tell you this, I go very easy when sparring with anyone (friend or not) on the mats. The reason is because over the past 15 years its been drilled into my brain that any "combat" type action should be looked at as a do or die situation. Meaning everything is a weapon to me. A firearm, a knife, my helmet, a rock on the ground, a stick I found, all tools to kill my enemy with. Modern day warriors fight with guns, artillery, and aircraft, etc etc. Which is not to say that battle today is any cleaner than it was in swords and arrows.Let your friend take you out the rifle/pistol range and see who fairs better, or have him talk to you about battle tactics, those would be a more fair comparison because that's what he trains day in and day out for. We train in hand to hand combat as a last resort for war situation, or to subdue unruley mob's. By the time it comes to hand to hand in war, both parties are usually so tired they can't think straight, so the techniques they teach us are very simplistic and easy to remember, and shouldn't match up well against the techniques those of us that train hard in martial arts know.
alsey Posted August 11, 2006 Posted August 11, 2006 rick, i made my post in rely to this post by cybren:No, Marines, SEALS, SAS, etc are the best fighters in the world.I'd rather fight a UFC fighter than any of them. But that's beside the point.now, seriously, i'd rather fight a marine than a UFC fighter. i can beat at least one marine, but a UFC fighter would flatten me in about 1 second. i'm talking about empty handed one-on-one combat.my friend (who is infantry BTW) is much better than me with a rifle, and much better than me at a lot of things related to combat, but empty-handed he's no match for me whether he wants to kill me or not. "Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
Rick_72 Posted August 11, 2006 Posted August 11, 2006 my friend (who is infantry BTW) is much better than me with a rifle, and much better than me at a lot of things related to combat, but empty-handed he's no match for me whether he wants to kill me or not.You may be correct in the context your putting the statement in. However, his mental picture of a "fight" is different than yours, so its not really a fair comparison. I'm speaking from my particular "mental picture", as I don't know your friend of course. I'm sure your friend and my military training is similar, just as yours and my martiral arts training is probably similar. The training that I've received in the military cause's my reaction to a fight to be, kill this guy before he kills me. My training in martial arts teaches my reaction to be to end the fight as quickly and with as little damage to either party as possible. These two lines of thinking conflict with each other tremendously, so I have to deal with that in my own mind.Your friend, as you explained him, has no formal martial arts training outside of what he receives in the military, so for him, given the right circumstances, would probably escalate a real fight to a life and death situation in his mind. Its a mentality that few outside of the military can truly understand, having not lived in a combat zone themselves.As far as lumping all UFC fighter's into a "can whoop my butt" catagory, I don't think that really works does it? UFC has different weight class's, rules, people with different backgrounds, and people with different skill levels (not unlike Marines, US or UK, as far as skill levels).....I don't know your physical makeup, but I think you might surprise yourself.
alsey Posted August 11, 2006 Posted August 11, 2006 my friend (who is infantry BTW) is much better than me with a rifle, and much better than me at a lot of things related to combat, but empty-handed he's no match for me whether he wants to kill me or not.You may be correct in the context your putting the statement in. However, his mental picture of a "fight" is different than yours, so its not really a fair comparison. I'm speaking from my particular "mental picture", as I don't know your friend of course. I'm sure your friend and my military training is similar, just as yours and my martiral arts training is probably similar.why isn't it a fair comparison? i'm comparing my one-on-one empty handed fighting ability to his, i don't see how mental pictures have anything to do with it. whatever his mental picture is, it doesn't change the fact that i can beat him. also, it so happens that i've actually seen more real close-in combat than he has.i'm not generalising this to all soldiers or marines, this is just one example. i'm sure there are plenty of soldiers that could beat me in this situation.As far as lumping all UFC fighter's into a "can whoop my butt" catagory, I don't think that really works does it? UFC has different weight class's, rules, people with different backgrounds, and people with different skill levels (not unlike Marines, US or UK, as far as skill levels).....I don't know your physical makeup, but I think you might surprise yourself.come on, seriously. if i stepped into the octagon against any UFC fighter i wouldn't stand a chance. in the one-on-one ring situtation, the UFC fighters are the best hands down. "Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
Rick_72 Posted August 11, 2006 Posted August 11, 2006 why isn't it a fair comparison? i'm comparing my one-on-one empty handed fighting ability to his, i don't see how mental pictures have anything to do with it. whatever his mental picture is, it doesn't change the fact that i can beat him. also, it so happens that i've actually seen more real close-in combat than he has.i'm not generalising this to all soldiers or marines, this is just one example. i'm sure there are plenty of soldiers that could beat me in this situation.come on, seriously. if i stepped into the octagon against any UFC fighter i wouldn't stand a chance. in the one-on-one ring situtation, the UFC fighters are the best hands down.You think that fighting in a sparring session is anywhere close to a real fight? That's how I don't think its a fair comparison, because sparring (whether grappling or stand up) doesn't take into account many factors that are found in a real fight, factors that could be the difference between winning and losing. Not least of which is the intentions of the parties involved, which is the mental aspect I'm speaking of. I've been, what I consider, beaten several times in free sparring against guys that I would pound into a pulp in a real fight, from just shear aggression and power. While they may be a little faster than me, and their technique a little more polished, my strength and aggressive natural would more than make up for in a street fight.See I guess our misunderstanding of our UFC statements are because your talking about fighting a UFC fighter in the cage.....I was just talking about fighting one of them anywhere. I agree, they are in great shape and practice on a day to day basis what works. I do like the UFC, I watch it whenever its on. I also think that these guys are great fighters, in or out of the cage. I'm just saying don't discount your own ability to fight, especially if you've never been pitted against any of those guys.....you never know until you've given it a try.
alsey Posted August 11, 2006 Posted August 11, 2006 i understand well the difference between real fighting and practice fighting. the reason i'm using a ring situation to make a comparison is because that's the only comparison that can be realistically made. real fighting is not one situation, every fight is different and anything can happen. saying 'i can beat this guy in a real fight' makes little sense IMO because 'real fight' can mean lots of different situations.all i can say is i am more skilled than my marine friend, i have trained more for the empty-handed one-on-one situation than he has, and i have been in more real fights (not including long range rifle fighting) than he has. this of course isn't true for all marines, but i bet its true for a lot. i'd also be willing to bet that any decent UFC fighter is more skilled, better trained and has more experience in this situation than the vast majority of soldiers. "Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
bushido_man96 Posted August 11, 2006 Posted August 11, 2006 This is a good thread, guys, with a lot of good points. Remember, keep everything constructive. Everyone is making very good points, and we all are learning something. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
mp5man1 Posted August 16, 2006 Posted August 16, 2006 I understand what Rick is saying. I am a former Marine I know how hard you guys train. No doubt it's very good training. As far as what this thread was about the UFC it is a ring or cage sport. I don't think a Marine in the cage with a pro would do well. Outside the cage could be another story. The UFC and Pride Fighters are great athletes. They call themselves warriors and that’s fine but outside the cage Marines are Warriors and so are Rangers, SF and a whole litany of others. It’s taking nothing away from a Marine to say that in the cage with a Liddell or Ortiz you probable wouldn’t do well. I don’t think they would want to meet you in the desert either.
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