Opinion on UFC

[juey palancu]

Good discussion,

So Ryoto has some BJJ, Muay-Thai training, which I knew by the way...so what? HE is a life-long karateka who trained since hw was a kid in his father's dojo. I am a brown belt in Judo but still consider myself primarily a traditional karateka. I have seen 5 of Ryoto's fights and not once I have seen any of his opponents take good advantage of the theoretically vulnerable karate stances...and from his fights it is very obvious that his traditional karate influences most of what he does.....

look forward to hearing more!

GEro

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Nidan- Traditional Shotokan

[elbows_and_knees]

Good discussion,

So Ryoto has some BJJ, Muay-Thai training, which I knew by the way...so what? HE is a life-long karateka who trained since hw was a kid in his father's dojo. I am a brown belt in Judo but still consider myself primarily a traditional karateka. I have seen 5 of Ryoto's fights and not once I have seen any of his opponents take good advantage of the theoretically vulnerable karate stances...and from his fights it is very obvious that his traditional karate influences most of what he does.....

look forward to hearing more!

GEro

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Nidan- Traditional Shotokan

you're not looking at the whole picture. I am also a brown in judo, but primarily a thai boxer who has some traditional training. Here's the thing - when you (if you ever) fight a grappler, what's keeping you on your feet? it's not your karate - it's your judo. you know how to avoid throws and takedowns more effectively because you trained it. That makes it easier for you to capitalize on your strength - your striking. Look at chuck liddel - he has grappled since he was a kid. because of this, it's almost impossible to take him down, and even when you do get him down, it's almost impossible to keep him there. This allows him to maximize his strength - the fact that he's heavy handed.

[juey palancu]

elbows, you make very good points, and your analysis of Chuck Lidell's style is right on the money.

However, when I started judo my takedown defense was already very well developed by my practice of traditional shotokan, which has good techniques similiar to a judo ouchigeri and kataguruma, and a semi-spread defense from Chiko Dachi. Not all shotokan dojos teach this, but it is a part of the art put forth by shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi, who was a collaborator of judo's master Gigoro Cano, by the way. Funakoshi was renowned by his clinch-fighting ability by the way. Now that I think of it, the early masters were very well-rounded.

I did get MUCH better at throwing people and at maneuvering in the ground by studying judo, I have to admit, but it is very hard to throw me off my feet in the first place. All in all, in my opinion, cross-training is good, but no substitute for studying a traditional art in depth.

thanks for the postings!

Gero

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Nidan Traditional Shotokan

[Menjo]

However, when I started judo my takedown defense was already very well developed by my practice of traditional shotokan, which has good techniques similiar to a judo ouchigeri and kataguruma, and a semi-spread defense from Chiko Dachi. Not all shotokan dojos teach this, but it is a part of the art put forth by shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi, who was a collaborator of judo's master Gigoro Cano, by the way. Funakoshi was renowned by his clinch-fighting ability by the way. Now that I think of it, the early masters were very well-rounded.

Yes I agree, I find with quality shotokan dojos, they teach aspects that develop variety in technique, not to mention this can be achieved through the techniques already set out.

All in all, shotokan's image has been greatly messed up in the minds of the public, commonly.

[SubGrappler]

I did get MUCH better at throwing people and at maneuvering in the ground by studying judo, I have to admit, but it is very hard to throw me off my feet in the first place. All in all, in my opinion, cross-training is good, but no substitute for studying a traditional art in depth.

thanks for the postings!

Gero

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Nidan Traditional Shotokan

I think thats just being narrow minded to think that one style has all the answers. Someone who spends their entire life doing nothing but grappling is going to know how to grapple a thousand times more efficiently than someone who just studies it on the side. The same is true with striking skills. There are strikes in Jiu Jitsu and Judo, but Im not about to ask Royler Gracie to teach me Muay Thai, you know what I mean?

You can fine tune it even more so than simple grappling vs striking. Someone who does only takedowns (such as a freestyle wrestler) is going to be much adept at teaching takedowns than a grapple who is proficient in submission wrestling tournaments. A boxer is going to have better hands than someone who only practices it half as much- you get what Im saying.

Those that refused to adapt and cross train, including the Gracies, found themselves falling behind the competition.

[Menjo]

I did get MUCH better at throwing people and at maneuvering in the ground by studying judo, I have to admit, but it is very hard to throw me off my feet in the first place. All in all, in my opinion, cross-training is good, but no substitute for studying a traditional art in depth.

thanks for the postings!

Gero

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Nidan Traditional Shotokan

I think thats just being narrow minded to think that one style has all the answers. Someone who spends their entire life doing nothing but grappling is going to know how to grapple a thousand times more efficiently than someone who just studies it on the side. The same is true with striking skills. There are strikes in Jiu Jitsu and Judo, but Im not about to ask Royler Gracie to teach me Muay Thai, you know what I mean?

You can fine tune it even more so than simple grappling vs striking. Someone who does only takedowns (such as a freestyle wrestler) is going to be much adept at teaching takedowns than a grapple who is proficient in submission wrestling tournaments. A boxer is going to have better hands than someone who only practices it half as much- you get what Im saying.

Those that refused to adapt and cross train, including the Gracies, found themselves falling behind the competition.

Actually I would consider it dedication and confidence in ones martial art.

This is the ideal that made me feel like I had to quit muay Thai, the feeling of being told facts that if I dont follow I wont be able to keep up.

Some would prefer to use thier style in a way that suits them, not facts that suit them.

I see what your point and its good, however I dont think I would acheive much if I had thought like this during my life.

Just for insight...

[BLueDevil]

Ive always believed a good base in one MA and then plug the holes in would be the best strategy.

Kempo/Muay Thai+BJJ/Judo or my fav Sambo

You end up well rounded

Just my opinion

[Andrew_Patton]

that's exactly the same stance I've always taken, started out in shorin ryu karate, and since taking up other styles, BJJ and judo notably, those arts actually fell in place quite quickly and I did progress through the ranks quicker than my peers at the schools I was going to. Not to a high rank mind you, but still to a good place for now.

BUT mind you this is the exact sentiment many MMA fighters have, Jeremy Horn's primary art is BJJ, Chuck liddel's primary art is Wrestling, so's Matt Hughes', and the list of similarities goes on and on and on. I don't believe someone should hop in the deep end of the pool before learning some kind of way to swim, be it the backstroke or dog paddling (no this is not a way of me saying that one way of fighting (grappling vs. striking) is better, just the only ways to swim I know of). It's all about the workload you as a Martial Artist can take on.

[Medici]

I did get MUCH better at throwing people and at maneuvering in the ground by studying judo, I have to admit, but it is very hard to throw me off my feet in the first place. All in all, in my opinion, cross-training is good, but no substitute for studying a traditional art in depth.

thanks for the postings!

Gero

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Nidan Traditional Shotokan

It's no substitute at all, it's a superior replacement. Let's face it, if traditional martial arts were so great to begin with, these MT/BJJ guys wouldn't be absolutely dominating the UFC and PRIDE and Vale Tudo and everything else. Even the guys who started in karate or something, looking at how they fight now, it all resembles boxing standing up, and so on. No it doesn't incorperate everything that can happen in a fight thanks to the rules, but sport martial arts evolve (evolution inherently moves towards the better) because the techniques themselves basically compete for survival. That means they're always improving themselves- which is why, for instance, boxers, are so incredibly good with their hands.

[Menjo]

because the techniques themselves basically compete for survival. That means they're always improving themselves- which is why, for instance, boxers, are so incredibly good with their hands.

I find alot of Martial artists lose the essense of martial arts by only focusing on science and competitions.

which is why, for instance, boxers, are so incredibly good with their hands.

In my opinion...So are wing chun practitioners, also it seems now alot of new martial arts are becoming more and more fitting to the average person...I think its the fame, money and overall population adaption have to do with MMA success.

Even the guys who started in karate or something, looking at how they fight now, it all resembles boxing standing up, and so on.

Comparing Karate alone I find is ineffective, because your judging past peoples potential, not karate's potential.

Karate I beileve should become whatever you want it to be for yourself.