samurai sword

[KarateKid7]

im glad this spawned an interesting discussion. thanks for you replies. i was at a formal occasion and some street thugs randomly came in and attacked an old man because he told them to leave. i was going to step in (i did not know they were armed at this point) as he was the father of a friend and loved ones were all around me and were potentialy going to get hurt. luckily the police were called. it was very random and very stupid. infact i didnt realise they were armed till the whole situation was exposed in the police arrest.

[Robopablo]

...my master is a guy name Steve Pinder, he was trained by Fusei Kise...

No..no he wasn't.

[JusticeZero]

At any rate, a very competent karateka would still have difficulty defeating a reasonably competent swordsman.

Karate seems to have an awful lot of improvised weapon forms in it for one, and for another, in my admittedly limited experience, the kind of people who like to stir up trouble are most commonly the same kind of people who can't be bothered to spend time practicing and training.

[sensei8]

...my master is a guy name Steve Pinder, he was trained by Fusei Kise...

No..no he wasn't.

I concur. To say he was trained by Fusei Kise is to imply that he was on the floor at the same time, as a student, with Fusei Kise.

If I'm correct...Mr. Pinder is a direct Shodan of Sensei Al Gagne...Sensei Al Gagne is a direct student of Sensei Vince Weigand first...then later under Sensei James Coffman.

That's like saying every JKD student was trained by Bruce Lee, and of course, they weren't.

[sensei8]

At any rate, a very competent karateka would still have difficulty defeating a reasonably competent swordsman.

Karate seems to have an awful lot of improvised weapon forms in it for one, and for another, in my admittedly limited experience, the kind of people who like to stir up trouble are most commonly the same kind of people who can't be bothered to spend time practicing and training.

Solid post!!

[sensei8]

At any rate, a very competent karateka would still have difficulty defeating a reasonably competent swordsman.

I don't quite agree with that statement because I'm a very competent karateka whose equally competent in kobudo, so with that being said...

I'd not have a lot of "difficulty defeating a reasonably competent swordsman", of course each of ours skill sets would denote the most probable outcome. Am I boasting? No, I'm just very competent in both karate and kobudo.

[JusticeZero]

Right. Let's assume that the swordsman is the aggressor in the typical "karateka beat up a samurai" story.

As noted, troublemakers often are not as competent. So instead of a karateka against a competent swordsman, we're now looking at "a karateka against a marginal swordsman". Lots of bluster but likes to let the fact that they have a sword do their talking for them, instead of learning to use the sword effectively. That takes good training habits and hard work, and to many troublemakers, that's not needed - most people back down when you point out the big chunk of sharp metal anyways, so why not relax and enjoy the easy life?

Next, we're thinking "an unarmed karateka against a swordsman HOLDING A SWORD". We've already seen this assumption played out with guns. The swordsman might not have pulled their weapon out yet. Now it's a trained karateka with the initiative against someone with a weapon retention problem but no weapon readied. I think the LEO's here can verify that that is a situation that has already gone pear shaped, and barring backup showing up quickly, a large amount of skill on their part (and see the point above), or raw luck, is very likely going to continue to go poorly for them.

Finally, we're thinking "an UNARMED karateka against a samurai". On of the distinguishing factors I always see about Karate is the sheer amount of training time they seem to spend with various sticks and pointy things in their hands. The "stereotypical karateka" as is often portrayed seems to carry around assorted "farming implements OF DOOM!!" just about everywhere they go. A fight between two people who are armed is a much more even encounter. Nobody expresses shock when a swordsman loses in a fight against, say, a person with a staff, or a big club, or a spear, or a flail, or any other bit of mayhem that a peasant might be able to cobble together and find time to train with. That seems, in fact, to be a scenario that played out over and over during assorted portions of European martial history.

[bushido_man96]

i almost got into a situation the other day involving a samurai sword. i was unarmed...if i cudnt run and i was cornered, how wud i go against disarming such a large weapon...is there anyway? sureli, ur dead if u come up against one unarmed.

I know this is an old thread, but since it has been posted on some lately, I thought I would address this.

Weapons are useful because, as tallgeese would say, they are a force multiplier. Someone who isn't a knife fighter can still cut you in a fight with a knife. Skill is great when it comes to weapons, but not necessary when it comes to doing damage. And most people who get cut in a fight, don't realize it when it happens.

If the sword is drawn when the encounter begins, start looking for something to use as a shield. If you couldn't run, for some reason, then start looking into your level of situational awareness. If you have to engage the weapon, then you would likely want to get inside the weapon's arc, which means you want to get to the hands of the guy holding it. Then, you have to get it away. Hopefully, the sword bearer concentrates on his sword more at this point, and you can rain down blows about his head and shoulders while he is trying to cut you or get you off his weapon.

End it fast, get them distracted, and then get away. Hopefully those would work for you.

[Liver Punch]

I always wondered why - if the sai was used for poking holes in the ground - the three (technical term about to be used) "prongs" were short on the sides with one long one in the middle. Why would the center hole need to be longer? Don't seeds need to be planted at the same general length? Modern planters seem to distribute the seed evenly.

I don't recommend being cornered. I also preach against being unarmed. People with swords in the above two circumstances further complicate a bad situation.

[yamesu]

I am fairly sure weapons resembling sai have been used in india for far longer than they were in west asia.

On the flipside, does it not make more sense that the Sai is the end of a pitchfork than a seed planting instrument?