dishonoring sensei

[shorei_kai_student]

ok guys i have a question for you. do you think it is a slap in the face when a student in the adult class hardly tries anything over 60 %. the only girl in our class well is this and she doesnt even respect her self half the time. i was wandering how as a fellow student i could help her stop the intructors and the desk lady try to get her to try harder and we the guys who try are hardest every night try to lead by example so can someone please give some advice.

[CloudDragon]

I have always seen the Martial Arts as a personal journey. If someone takes another path, so be it. If they get some rank or recognition before I do, or with less effort than me, so be it. I am not a Martial Artist to prove anything to anyone, or be better than another. I am a Martial Artist to improve myself.

[Why_Worry]

If it is the adult class then you have some good options . What i would do (provided everyone else doesnt care) is run it like a boot camp basically requiring everyone to work their hardest. Maybe do running for a warm up and run aorund the neighborhood. My sensei's when they were learning, they had to run barefoot through the neighborhood in nothing but their gi, even in the winter when there was 2 or 3 feet of snow on the ground. She has to try her hardest or else she going to fall behind. Now if she is trying you wait for her, but if she isnt, you just keep going and wait for her to catch up. Also jsut to other activities that require her to keep up and hopefully trying her hardest or at least hard will show in things like kata and blocking where she is by her self. There is also the old way of hitting them with a shinai if they dont work hard enough

[ninjanurse]

the only girl in our class well is this and she doesnt even respect her self half the time.

Well I think you have hit the nail on the head here. Self-respect is something that does not come naturally to some people and many struggle with this and it's many related issues throughout their lifetime. She may be doing the best she can at this point and needs more time to grow. If she feels secure at your school she will stick with it and grow to be self-assurred and confident. Isn't that what we want for all our students?

[shorei_kai_student]

ur guys points are good except i dont think i made it very clear that im not the sensei im an fellow student,

[kivikala]

Since you are a student trying to help a fellow student this is quite commendable. The sad fact of the matter is that a person must *want* to train and *want* to learn. Until that motivation is there, there is little you can do to help your fellow student. If you take on the other students burdens you will have hard time carrying your own. Once you become a senior in the class then it is your responsibility to help. But at your level (I am presuming you are not a senior) your job is to train, train and train some more. The other student must find their own way for the moment. (Also not knowing what the sensei's plans and methodology are it would be improper to question or try and second guess the situation.)

[White Warlock]

I agree with kivikala, you don't know if the instructor has plans to help her develop her self-esteem or confidence, but everyone trying to help her develop is likely only going to exacerbate her situation, feed her insecurity, make her feel like the odd-woman-out, the straggler, the black sheep. Treat her like a human being, like a fellow student, like everyone else, and don't worry about her dedication, commitment level, or motivation. What any student needs, at any stage of their development, is to feel they are progressing, and that they are 'part' of a community. By singling her out, trying to teach her, motivate her, beyond the instructor's efforts, not only are you distracting your own studies, you may indeed be going somewhere that would do more harm than good. Let the instructor do his job, and you do yours... go study.

[Monkeymagic]

Maybe that 60% you see is her 100%.

[kenpo_fighter]

I have always seen the Martial Arts as a personal journey. If someone takes another path, so be it.quote]

i also agree with this. we are all travelers that choose to walk the path of the budo. all on our own journeys, overcoming our own obstacles & challenges. we must each find our way and conquer the ultimate mastery of ones self.

all though your intentions are in the right place and seem to be genuine, you might want to seek out sensei and get his opinion on the situation. you can make in anonomous instead of naming the student in question. sensei, i'm sure has been in the situation you are presently at.

[24fightingchickens]

ok guys i have a question for you. do you think it is a slap in the face when a student in the adult class hardly tries anything over 60 %. the only girl in our class well is this and she doesnt even respect her self half the time. i was wandering how as a fellow student i could help her stop the intructors and the desk lady try to get her to try harder and we the guys who try are hardest every night try to lead by example so can someone please give some advice.

Rather than give you advice I will try to write from my own experience.

In the past, I was a hard-nosed, hard-core, bullet head of a trainee. I used to put my entire life, all of my eggs, into the karate basket. I trained morning and night, 6 days a week. I felt as though folks who did less than I was doing were not training enough or trying hard enough.

I used to go up to the older guys and other not-so-hard-core "part timers", as I called them, and correct every little thing they did and try to lecture them about how much better they would be if they trained more often and put in more effort. I saw everything from my own perspective. I thought that I knew better than they did about everything, even though they were 20 years older than me. After all, I was the little hot-shot black belt sent by God to show them all how it is done.

Fast forward to today - 20 years later. I'm a dad, and karate is somewhere down at the bottom of my top 20 things I need to do every day. I have kids to feed, work to do, I'm trying to finish writing a book, keep up a house, build another house, sell this one, clear out old junk, do the dishes, mow the grass, keep the cars running, and maintain a web site. I have a lot to do. All of this with a kid running around my feet who needs my attention when I am home.

So, today, if I walk into a karate class, and there is some young punk in there who thinks that I am not giving enough effort, and that he should try and help me, I'm probably going to politely, as nicely as possible, make it clear to him that I did not hire him as my instructor, and that when I want his help, I will let him know.

If the instructor asks me about my level of effort, I might or might not choose to share how many chronic injuries from decades of training I am nursing, and you know? I might just want to go to class to zone out and do something without putting 100% into it. I feel as though it is my business why I am there and what I do when I get there.

The rewards are mine to reap, and they are mine to choose. I would feel pretty uncomfortable in a karate training situation where there was a lot of group-think going on where everyone felt responsible for me and wanted to control not only my behavior but my goals and needs.

So, when I find myself in the position of being a senior student to someone else, I try to remember that I am not the instructor, and that advice that is not asked for is not help at all, but really insecurity and fear causing a desire to control. I try to suppress this urge and let people get on with their karate. If they want my help, its not like they don't know where to find me.