On Kanji

[f2journeys]

In our martial history lessons one of the first things we hear about Karate is that it was once not 'Empty Hands" but Chinese hands. Does any linguist here know if the pronounciation was different in that form? would the Hiragana spelling be different or just the kanji?

[y2_sub]

I guess it was spelled To de or To te ???? I am not sure

[Shorin Ryuu]

The pronunciation for empty (kara) is the same as the one for China (kara). The "kara" referring to China (Tang Dynasty) could alternatively (and more commonly, I believe) be pronounced as "Tou" (that's a long o).

[Fairfax_Uechi]

In our martial history lessons one of the first things we hear about Karate is that it was once not 'Empty Hands" but Chinese hands. Does any linguist here know if the pronounciation was different in that form? would the Hiragana spelling be different or just the kanji?

I have seen references to both. The most common is refrence is Empty Hand, but there are many well documented references to Chinese hand. The reasons are as Shorin Ryuu cites.

In your case, I'd follow what you are taught in class, but know that there are many things in martial arts that aren't as clear as some folks say. Also you might want to do more research, and read as much as possible. I once had a test board member comment that I knew quite a bit of history after being questioned on the history section of one of my tests. So knowing more than what's expected can be a very good thing.

[24fightingchickens]

Before the end of the 19th Century, the Okinawans considered their martial art to be Chinese Chuan-Fa. That word is written in Chinese using the same characters that can be read as Toh-te, Toh-te, or Karate-te (not the same kanji used today). Essentially, they mean "Chinese Fist."

As time passed, the Okinawans were changing their perspective from one of being Chinese affiliates to being Japanese (namely because the Japanese annexed the Ryukyu in 1853 and started enforcing their own beliefs on the Okinawans.

As a result, some Okinawans begans switching out the character Tou/kara for the character Shu/kara/sora/aki/kuu (yes it has all of those readings.

It is often rumored the person who started this change was Funakoshi, but it wasn't. It appeared before his time and took hold in places he had no influence simultaneously with his adaptation of it.

He tried calling his martial art toh-te kenpo. That didn't fly. He also tried out other names before giving up and going with the flow of "karate-te."

The kanji for toh-te are still used by Koreans to write "Tang Soo." Tang Soo Do is written the same way Toh-te-do would have been written by an Okinawan, but pronounced per the Korean language rules.