Want to take Wing Chun to the competition ring

[Menjo]

Hmm, so you actually want to take one of MMA type martial arts, or just to get some tips?

[daedelus4]

Actually, I want to compete on a higher level than point fighting but not as high as UFC for the purpose of spreading the efficacy of Wing Chun in actual combat. WC has gotten a bad rap as of late and I want to do my part in changing that perception. Although there are many valuable, useful and effective arts out there, my personal feelings is that WC is one of the best. Not only because of the techniques but also because of the ability to use them in a fairly short amount of time.

This is kinda off topic but what is the average time that any of you other WC fighters out there think should be devoted to practice, forms, sparring, etc. before WC shoudl/can be used effectively in a real fight. My guess is that a person who trains hard would be well equipped against most people after on ly 1-1/2 years of training.

[Menjo]

Ill just say something, any time you need depending on your body but yea id say about 1 year for getting in the right "shape", and getting some techniques down pat.

[SenseiKeith]

I am sorry that you are hearing people say that your art cannot defeat others. All I have to say is one name "Bruce Lee" hehehe. As far as arts Yip Man always told his students to go out there and practice their Gung Fu. And by that Yip Man ment go out there and fight people to see how your skills match up. Also if you look at the history of the art it was designed to defeat other systems (mainly shoalin systems). With that being said just ignor other people who might not know any bettter. Its not a matter of style that wins or loses its the fighter themself.

One thing I want to also remind you if you look at any of these NHB events they all have one thing in common. They all have rules try reading them sometime they will take away from what you can do. To tell me that you cannot hit to the throat or groin for example is silly in a street fight I am going to go for those targets and then some. And Im not trying to take anything away from NHB events Im just stating a fact that some people will over look.

And to turning your Wing Chun into something you can compete in are you thinking of something that is open to all styles or just to compete against each other. You can do forms or weapons or sticky hands for events. I am not completely sure where you are trying to head but I am sure you will let me know.

Respectfully Yours,

Keith

[Socratic_Sifu]

SenseiKeithL

Thank for your response and to answer your question, I will keep WC basically the same. I have added BJJ to my repetoire to deal with grapplers but I have pretty extensive submission training already. Hopefully I will learn enough anti-grappling, by virtue of the grappling training to avoid the ground fight (although I am very confident there and the BJJ is helping that even more) but I want to showcase the stop-hitting, power and especially entry techniques of WC specifically. I agree wholeheartedly that it is not really the style as much as the fighter and know that a part of my learning will come eventually from defeat but, I want to be able to say: "you know what?! WC can compete--b/c I did it" which will require some significant victories. I have heard of several WC only events and even some mixed traditional style events on the east coast that I will enter to prepare myself for what I am considering "the show" aka something similar to "pride" but I don't know of any events such as this that take place primarily in the midwest which is where I am located--the whole thing could prove to be cost prohibitive. Any help on possible tourneys or events would be very helpful.

[SenseiKeith]

That sounds great. Finding a tournament that will suit your needs will be tough. But if I hear of anything that sounds like it is up your ally I will post the info here for you or private msg you the info. You can look into the IFC (International Fighting Championships) see if that sorta thing interests you.

http://www.ifc-usa.com/

I do wish you the best of luck in what you seek. Feel free to send me a msg and let me know how you are doing.

Respectfully Yours,

Keith

[SubGrappler]

Actually, I want to compete on a higher level than point fighting but not as high as UFC for the purpose of spreading the efficacy of Wing Chun in actual combat. WC has gotten a bad rap as of late and I want to do my part in changing that perception. Although there are many valuable, useful and effective arts out there, my personal feelings is that WC is one of the best. Not only because of the techniques but also because of the ability to use them in a fairly short amount of time.

WC gets a bad rep when they try to overanalyze a fight. For instance, to emphasize only speed when you chain punch at the expense of power is going to lead to a combination of useless punches.

The great thing that wing chun has is the centerline theory, because it works quite well. Dont get too caught up in "proving" that wing chun can be used in competitions- I have already seen wing chun practitioners fight at lower level and local MMA events. Quite simply, you dont see anything new out of the fight when they go in there. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. Trapping has its limitations when the punch you're attempting to trap is being followed by another right behind it.

As far as using Bruce Lee as an argument for Wing Chun, he left the style to create his own because he felt it had various holes and lacked sufficient training for actual fights after he had trained in it and attempted to use it in a fight.

As far as reading the rules in a tournament and how you cant hit the throat or the groin (which is apparently the only thing holding karate guys back from decimating UFC events) bear in mind that your opponent cant do it to you either (as if no one ever thought to hit someones groin in a fight) and striking the throat is only illegal in UFC- just one of many mixed martial arts venues.

[White Warlock]

As a whole, i don't disagree with you. I will, however, take exception to this:

to emphasize only speed when you chain punch at the expense of power is going to lead to a combination of useless punches.

I disagree. It is exceedingly effective for many reasons.

These are not useless punches, if you keep it in context as to what it is attempting, and almost always succeeds in doing. It is an overwhelm technique that is geared towards taking over the confrontation and causing the opponent to switch to 'defense.'

Also, the linear strikes presented in wc are some of the most 'powerful' linear strikes out there. In comparison to circular strikes, they pale... but in comparison to most other linear strikes, they excell.

As well, you cannot dismiss the rate of strikes that are presented by blasting (chain punching, etc), nor the virtual non-existence of telegraph such strikes present.

[SubGrappler]

As a whole, i don't disagree with you. I will, however, take exception to this:

to emphasize only speed when you chain punch at the expense of power is going to lead to a combination of useless punches.

I disagree. It is exceedingly effective for many reasons.

These are not useless punches, if you keep it in context as to what it is attempting, and almost always succeeds in doing. It is an overwhelm technique that is geared towards taking over the confrontation and causing the opponent to switch to 'defense.'

Im not discounting chain punching, but rather poor chain punching. Many of the people I've seen who claim to be wing chun practitioners have no power behind their chain punches, which, just like a jab that has no power behind it, are almost useless. This seems to be the apparently problem with many of the wing chun practitioners I've seen as they sacrifice power for speed to make a martial art look cooler or more devestating to potential students.

Its not just getting hit that puts someone on the defense, but rather its getting hit hard.

[shogeri]

In regards to adapting the style of your opponent.

The art of combat is to know your opponent, and know what they are going to do next.

The point was really to not teach people to mimic other's rather, it means training yourself to calculate, based upon the situation you are in, what your opponent needs to do in order to beat you, using the tools they have.

People believe that they have to completely give up who they are in order to do so, but in reality they are only going half way with this given principle.

Most misunderstand it enough to basically panic, and so they forget everything they have trained for, and try to use someone else's techniques back against them.

The opponent that continues to only do what they know to, has given up nothing.

I would never want to fight a boxer, using only boxing. I would never go to the ground with a wrestler or grappler, using their rules.

A good fighter does whatever it takes. A good fighter doesn't do just one thing well, he or she does a few things well.

A good fighter is fast on their feet, with their hands, their whole body, and with their mind.

A good fighter is both accurate and adaptive to those situations where a new target must be evaluated, 'on the fly'...

Those are just some thoughts...Looks like a great conversation so far!