Shorin- ryu Question

[seibukan]

Shorin- ryu Question

There is lots of info on these branches of Shorin-ryu

”Matsubayashi” founded by Shoshin Nagamine

“Kobayashi” founded by Chosin Chibana

”Shobayashi” founded by Eizo Shimabukuro

“Matsumura Orthodox” founded by Hohan Soken

but I can’t find much on

“Sukunaihayashi”: founded by Chotoku Kyan (not really founded it was just what Kyan called his style, it was passed onto Zenryo Shimabukuro who founded Seibukan (Seibukan is just the name of the dojo, not the style.)

Why is it not mentioned as a Shorin-ryu style as often as the others (nearly never)

[seibukan]

sorry for the nearly identical re-post

[Shorin Ryuu]

Sukunaihayashi sounds like an incorrect pronunciation of the characters which form the "Shobayashi" in Shobayashi Shorin Ryu. Shimabukuro Eizo was also a student of Kyan Chotoku. The "Sho" was the original character used when describing the "Shao" in "Shaolin". This differs by a stroke from the "Ko" in "Kobayashi" although they mean pretty much the same thing.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Sukunaihayashi sounds like an incorrect pronunciation of the characters which form the "Shobayashi" in Shobayashi Shorin Ryu.

It is a mispronounciation and it's used knowingly. Backround for this interesting use is in Uchinaguchi. Sukunaihayashi was a name Kyan himself used.

Shimabukuro Eizo was also a student of Kyan Chotoku.

That is what he claims, but he was too young to be a student of Kyan. His older brother was a student of Kyan, though. Eizo's techniques reflect - more than anything else - that he studied from his brother Tatsuo Shimabukuro (who had his personal approach to karate, including a "standing fist" that can be seen in many pictures of Eizo Shimabukuro as well).

Eizo Shimabukuro's kata list is not Kyan's list (Kyan did not teach Naifanchi - a fact confirmed from Joyen Nakazato, only still living student of Kyan Chotoku) and includes kata from Goju-ryu -heritage (that his brother also studied and taught), such as Seienchin and Sanchin.

Eizo Shimabukuro is a "hot potato" with his claims about being Kyan Chotoku's student. However, no other student of Kyan has confirmed his claims and his age also speaks against him in this issue. His older brother was asked this question several times and each and every time he confirmed that Eizo Shimabukuro was not a student of Kyan Chotoku. Other students say the same. Eizo has still continued claiming so, which, with certain other interesting features (such as very efficient "special training" if a student has a suitable amount of cash, resulting in rise of dan-grades) has earned him a certain reputation in Okinawa (that can be verified by asking just about any Okinawan teacher).

I'm sorry if this text startled anyone. I know that Eizo's claims are accepted by "truth" by several people. However, no proof for his claims have ever surfaced.

Here's a list of verified students of Kyan Chotoku.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I'll admit I haven't really studied too much on him. I just know that it was controversial back then when he was promoted to hanshi when he was only 35 years old.

I do know that he did learn Naihanchi from Chibana Chosin. It was actually very common for people (others include those like Hohan Soken) to learn Naihanchi and other things from Chibana Chosin as he was considered the "last" of the "old masters" on Okinawa and highly respected by many people of all styles on Okinawa.

[seibukan]

So Shobayashi & Sukunaihayashi are spelt with the same Kanji,

but are different styles.

Question 1: If Kyan was calling and spelling his style "Sukunaihayashi" before styles were required to register, why was Eizo permitted to used the same name? (in spelling).

Question 2: If it's a different style and one of the first with a name, why is Sukunaihayashi seldom mentioned as a Shorin-ryu style? (Not one of the big 4)

I've read the Sukunaihayashi is a Hogen word refering to Shaolin, Is that correct?

THANKS IN ADVANCE

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Question 1: If Kyan was calling and spelling his style "Sukunaihayashi" before styles were required to register, why was Eizo permitted to used the same name? (in spelling).

Styles weren't trademarked back then. "Shorin" is a common way to nod towards Shaolin (occasionally "ji" - "tzu" in Chinese, meaning "temple" - was thrown in). School (kan) means usually more than style (ryu).

Back in the days of 1800's karate styles weren't really defined as they're now and even the "root styles" for many now well known "kan" were in a development state. Kyan called his approach to karate as "Sukunaihayashi", most probably to give Shaolin some credit as a home of many Chinese martial art traditions.

Question 2: If it's a different style and one of the first with a name, why is Sukunaihayashi seldom mentioned as a Shorin-ryu style? (Not one of the big 4)

That is hard to say. Seibukan and Kyudokan aren't very commonly mentioned in any karate book and even Kyan is often passed with a couple of short sentences. One explanation may be that Kyan didn't have that many students and that his karate was - even in his days - seen as "rugged" and "old styled", as opposed to Itosu's school karate approach and its followers.

I've read the Sukunaihayashi is a Hogen word refering to Shaolin, Is that correct?

"Hogen" means dialect generally. But if you're asking if Sukunaihayashi refers to Shaolin in Okinawan language or dialect (Uchinaguchi), the answer is yes.

Hmm. I wonder if your nick refers to your chosen school of karate? It'd be nice to meet an another Seibukan student online, especially when it seems that there aren't all that many of us. Drop me a personal message if you wish.

[seibukan]

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