Difference between a Karate punch, and a Gung Fu punch

[y2_sub]

Define racist !!!

[Enviroman]

Define racist !!!

Someone that discriminates based solely on their race. Chinese and Japanese people are both eastern Asian, hence the term racist probably wouldn't apply.

[IRKguy]

The race issue is beside the point. It is unfortunately common for a stylist to oversimplify styles he has not studied.

The distinction Lee was making was about the difference between a thrusting punch and a snapping punch. Isshinryu, an Okinawan style, emphasizes the snapping punch, which is thrown with a vertical fist that is thrown with a loose arm for the majority of the distance, then tensed in the last microsecond of the technique. (I haven't gotten it down to the microsecond yet, but that's the idea.)

When the whole body locks down in that last moment, the fist retracts quickly, resulting in a kind of bullwhip effect. When you hit a heavy bag that way, the bag moves, but the shock of the hit does not return up the arm, as it does with a thrusting punch.

I have used and do use both types of punches, and the effect is actually well-described by Mr. Lee. You can either try to thrust into your target or try to pop into your target. Both work, but they work in very different ways.

Think about the difference between a front snap kick and a front thrust kick. A thrust kick will knock your opponent back, but it does a different kind of damage from what a snapping kick does. If you think about it, the snap is less commitment and more internal damage. The thrust is more commitment and more external damage in terms of position and balance, but if the person moves with it, there is no real dehabilitation. If the person does not move, the effect is considerable. A snap kick doesn't knock anyone backward, but he's more likely to fall over where he stands than someone who is thrusted backward. That said, I'm not in any hurry to get hit by an iron bar. I'm just saying that a thrust and a snap are designed to do two very different things.

As to whether or not Mr. Lee was correct, well, Isshinryu is Karate, and its punch is a chain whip, not an iron bar. Maybe he oversimplified Karate styles. On the other hand, people who study Karate and see me make a fist, vertical with the thumb on top, assume I study Wing Chun or some Chinese style. I think his description is good, but he isn't describing what he thinks he is describing. So he's both right and wrong. I guess after an equivocation like that, everything should be perfectly clear.

Sorry there's no smiley for rolling eyes.

[White Warlock]

Sorry there's no smiley for rolling eyes.

[ysc87]

this subject is of personal interest to me, because i also heard lee's quote about the karate vs the gungfu punch two years ago, and i wanted to find out for myself. i used to know a group of friends who trained in both arts (while i was taking TKD), and i asked to train along with both. the karate punch is essentially the same one that i was taught in tkd, so that was pretty easy to pull off. then i learned the lead straight that was so emphasised by lee, and that took a few weeks to get down to a passable level.

i asked 5 or so friends to judge the difference using a kicking pad i had, and i found out that the jkd-style punch, where one movement accelerates the next one was slightly more powerful by a detectable amount.

however, i don't think that anyone trained in karate for a long time should all of the sudden try to change their punches. you have to go with what you're comfortable with, not to mention that both styles of punches have their pros and cons.

as for y2_sub, although you seem to have some issues everytime lee's name comes up, don't care so much, man. he's only a person. just a person who was a little too dedicated to martial arts, but that's why most of us love him.

as for the "racist" thing, as an asian person, i'll explain it to all you yankees:

this is applicable to most asian people who were born before the age of political correctness--

chinese and koreans don't trust each other but they both hate the japenese. but they were pissed because japan invaded and killed a lot of people in both countries. lee wasn't too fond of the racism shown to his countrymen before his time by the japenese, but he didn't hate them, just didn't have much love for them. but that really didn't have anything to do with his statement about the punches. he did, however, measure the power differences between the punches at caltech, i believe. (this i learned only a few months ago)

oh yeah, props to IRKguy. best explanation i've heard so far.

[dippedappe]

The race issue is beside the point. It is unfortunately common for a stylist to oversimplify styles he has not studied.

The distinction Lee was making was about the difference between a thrusting punch and a snapping punch. Isshinryu, an Okinawan style, emphasizes the snapping punch, which is thrown with a vertical fist that is thrown with a loose arm for the majority of the distance, then tensed in the last microsecond of the technique. (I haven't gotten it down to the microsecond yet, but that's the idea.)

When the whole body locks down in that last moment, the fist retracts quickly, resulting in a kind of bullwhip effect. When you hit a heavy bag that way, the bag moves, but the shock of the hit does not return up the arm, as it does with a thrusting punch.

I have used and do use both types of punches, and the effect is actually well-described by Mr. Lee. You can either try to thrust into your target or try to pop into your target. Both work, but they work in very different ways.

Think about the difference between a front snap kick and a front thrust kick. A thrust kick will knock your opponent back, but it does a different kind of damage from what a snapping kick does. If you think about it, the snap is less commitment and more internal damage. The thrust is more commitment and more external damage in terms of position and balance, but if the person moves with it, there is no real dehabilitation. If the person does not move, the effect is considerable. A snap kick doesn't knock anyone backward, but he's more likely to fall over where he stands than someone who is thrusted backward. That said, I'm not in any hurry to get hit by an iron bar. I'm just saying that a thrust and a snap are designed to do two very different things.

As to whether or not Mr. Lee was correct, well, Isshinryu is Karate, and its punch is a chain whip, not an iron bar. Maybe he oversimplified Karate styles. On the other hand, people who study Karate and see me make a fist, vertical with the thumb on top, assume I study Wing Chun or some Chinese style. I think his description is good, but he isn't describing what he thinks he is describing. So he's both right and wrong. I guess after an equivocation like that, everything should be perfectly clear.

Sorry there's no smiley for rolling eyes.

Best reply I have read in this post mate.

[Jay]

If is remember there is a thing on the jeet kun do film about this issue an american that had a dan degree in judo and a dan degree in shotkan karate didi a study for bruce lee about the compaarision of the two bunches an dthe study revealed that the JKD punch was indeed more powerful personally i dont think this is correct as JKD is done from a very shotstand and i cant see how it is more powerful as there is very little use of the hip but if you have seen bruce lees one inch puch then you will see that he manages to generate power from a very short distance

Please tell me where the power comes from because it has been bugging me

[dippedappe]

If is remember there is a thing on the jeet kun do film about this issue an american that had a dan degree in judo and a dan degree in shotkan karate didi a study for bruce lee about the compaarision of the two bunches an dthe study revealed that the JKD punch was indeed more powerful personally i dont think this is correct as JKD is done from a very shotstand and i cant see how it is more powerful as there is very little use of the hip but if you have seen bruce lees one inch puch then you will see that he manages to generate power from a very short distance

Please tell me where the power comes from because it has been bugging me

If your question is about where the power of One-inch-punch is coming from, then it's from you stance and rotation. There are also something with how your hand is being used when punching. We trained One-inch-punch in Shaolin, and that was for showing how important it is to use your stance correctly, and rotate downwards in the stance when punching. I'm under the impression that there are several ways to do this punch. We learned to do it with an open hand. I can't explain it better than that since I never really practiced it very much.

[Muaythaiboxer]

there are more that two kinds of punching like boxing the rotation of gung-fu the snap of karate.

or the tai-chi style strike very little arm movement and more pushing with the body.

[jedimc]

did he ever say he didnt like the japanese?

Im not sure about it but I think he didnt like how there was so much karate in the USA and how everyone thought it was the ultimate system.

But im only getting this info of the movies that have been made about him , Dragon: bruce lee story and Bruce lee the man , the myth.