Way of the intercepting fist

[dippedappe]

The concept of intercepting your opponents strike and/or energy and dishing your own attack back simulataneously although is the center theory or concept driving JKD, is not the only aspect to it that differentiates itself from others. Because yes, if that was it then he would have taught Wing Chun not JKD.

You seem to forget that Wing Chun is a primarily hand strike oriented fighting system, with short powerful low kicks here and there. Bruce Lee never decreed any such rules, because he viewed rules such as that as nothing more than a hindrance on a fighter. He believed everyone had to find their own way when it came to martial arts, and that everyone would fight differently to some degree.

So while I agree that JKD is truly little more than an idea, it still is a concept that he alone pioneered on a large scale in world. Heck Bruce Lee openly admits that most of the JKD techniques he taught were derived from Wing Chun, Western Boxing, and Taekwondo, despite how he never saw any of them as truly a "complete" art for a person.

Thats not what I'm talking about either. As I wrote before

I was talking about Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do was special for partly being a method of Intercepting.

I know that JKD is very different from other arts, and that there was a hell lot more to it than simple intercepting.

All I'm talking about is that he stole the name. As the name say. "This is the way to intercept your opponents attack with one of your own". But that was already used in another style. Know what I'm saying? I'm saying that it was wrong to name it JKD since that name was already taken, in a way.

[KempoTiger]

oooh....

wow I never knew that. I'll have to look that up and get back to you.

[KempoTiger]

Ok maybe I don't get what you're saying. I just looked up Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do and most sites regarding that, refer to that as organizations branched off from Bruce Lee's system.

Are you saying that you're problem with Jeet Kune Do is the fact that the principle behind it's meaning is already a focal point of another system? Because in that case Ch'uan Fa means "Way of the fist" while there seem to be quite many systems based off of using ones fists. And Taekwondo means "The art of hand and foot fighting" which I think summarizes quite a few martial arts styles that have pre-existed Taekwondo. So shall we go after them as well?

[ovine king]

there is no other style called jeet kune do.

not even in chinese, no style is called way of intercepting fist so how is that stealinga name? stealing whose name? wing chun? I could've sworn wing chun was called.... wing chun....

[dippedappe]

Ok maybe I don't get what you're saying. I just looked up Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do and most sites regarding that, refer to that as organizations branched off from Bruce Lee's system.

Are you saying that you're problem with Jeet Kune Do is the fact that the principle behind it's meaning is already a focal point of another system? Because in that case Ch'uan Fa means "Way of the fist" while there seem to be quite many systems based off of using ones fists. And Taekwondo means "The art of hand and foot fighting" which I think summarizes quite a few martial arts styles that have pre-existed Taekwondo. So shall we go after them as well?

Kicks and punches are not MA tactics or philosophies. They are only weapons. Intercepting attacks is a tactic, not a weapon. They can't be compared. Saying "This is the style where we use kicking and punching", is not the same as saying "This is the style where we use interception". They are two totally different categories. The first is reusing weapons or tools. The second is reusing an idea.

there is no other style called jeet kune do.

not even in Chinese, no style is called way of intercepting fist so how is that stealinga name? stealing whose name? wing chun? I could've sworn wing chun was called.... wing chun....

You misunderstood. It was a metaphor. Wing Chun is special for being a style for intercepting. But JKD was viewed as revolutionary for partly dealing with interception. The name JKD indicate that this is the revolutionary method that unlike all other styles, deals with intercepting. But since that is already WC's philosophy it was kind of stolen. I mean that JKD was partly being revolutionary by taking the credit from an already existing idea.

But this is only what it looks like to me.

[ovine king]

name one art that doesn't deal with the interception of an attack.

[KempoTiger]

name one art that doesn't deal with the interception of an attack.

Shotokan?

[White Warlock]

Ovine King is correct in his query to illicit thought on the issue. Wing chun is not unique in the concept of interception of assault. There are plenty of systems, even before the development of wing chun, that propound, at least in part, to 'intercept.'

btw, Jun Fan is Bruce Lee's actual name, so to call something Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do is somewhat pointless. He devised the concept of jeet kune do, which is actually not a system, but a philosophy, or approach, to learning... to study.

A little timeline:

Bruce Lee initially taught Jun Fan kung fu. I.e., he taught 'Bruce Lee' kung fu (being that it was his own name). Later, after exposing himself further to European fighting systems (wrestling, boxing, fencing) and to some Japanese systems (judo, etc), he devised the concept of jeet kune do, which although translates to, "way of the intercepting fist," actually incorporated more of an approach to study, in which one should absorb what works and toss out what doesn't. So, in a way, the title he presented created somewhat of an obstacle to learning, which he later realized and which is one of the reasons he later closed his jeet kune do / jun fan kung fu schools. It was during this time he started purporting to the "way of no way."

I've spent a bit of time examining his philosophical journey, and i can confidently say... that is what it was, a journey. Because he was so extroverted, we were able to witness this journey. The mistake in doing so, is to look at his entire life's actions... as a single moment. It is better to examine his path... to look at what he did, and when, and then examine the changes he presented... both in technique, and in philosophy.

These are the stages i've witnessed in his studies:

• Technique - (apply) - Test tube / theory - Jun Fan do
   
  Muscle Memory - (react) - spar / practice - jeet kune do
   
  Mind/Body - (act) - fight - "way of no way"

I'm sorry to say that Bruce Lee never reached a particular point of enlightenment that would have truly benefited us, but i'm confident he would have, had he more time. He had touched upon it, but not totally immersed himself in it:

• Transcend - (do) - not fight

[dippedappe]

name one art that doesn't deal with the interception of an attack.

Theres a difference between having elements of interception and having interception as a main part.

Ovine King is correct in his query to illicit thought on the issue. Wing chun is not unique in the concept of interception of assault. There are plenty of systems, even before the development of wing chun, that propound, at least in part, to 'intercept.'

Hung gar is one of them if I'm not mistaking.

btw, Jun Fan is Bruce Lee's actual name, so to call something Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do is somewhat pointless. He devised the concept of jeet kune do, which is actually not a system, but a philosophy, or approach, to learning... to study.

He didn't call it Jun Fan JKD. JKD is being taught still as it was originally before Lee's back injury. That teaching is called Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, to indicate that it's the original JKD. And I think JKD is a style no matter how much he wanted it not to be. It is being taught as a style too. The later JKD right before Lee died, it was a philosophy, but before the back injury it was a style.

Bruce Lee initially taught Jun Fan kung fu. I.e., he taught 'Bruce Lee' kung fu (being that it was his own name). Later, after exposing himself further to European fighting systems (wrestling, boxing, fencing) and to some Japanese systems (judo, etc), he devised the concept of jeet kune do, which although translates to, "way of the intercepting fist," actually incorporated more of an approach to study, in which one should absorb what works and toss out what doesn't. So, in a way, the title he presented created somewhat of an obstacle to learning, which he later realized and which is one of the reasons he later closed his jeet kune do / jun fan kung fu schools. It was during this time he started purporting to the "way of no way."

And another thing. This thread is NOT about what Jeet Kune Do is about. Nor about Lee's life. I have already stated this before. I do know what JKD is about, and this is not about that.

[KempoTiger]

My point DD, is that you can name a style whatever you want. JKD is "the way of the intercepting fist", it doesn't mean it's the first time intercepting a strike was done in a style. Wing Chun is Wing Chun, and just because it incorporates heavy emphasis on intercepting doesn't mean that it has the right to those words.

Like I said earlier, the name of the style only represents only a glimpse of what you're going to learn. In Karate you learn to fight without weapons...in TKD you learn to use your hands and feet, in Kempo you learn the "way of the fist", and in JKD you learn the way of the intercepting fist. To the best of my knowledge Wing Chun means "Praise Spring", and I don't know if I like this style taking my pagan religion's MO of worshipping spring

On a side note, although I've never taken Wing Chun I don't think I've ever seen a WC Martial artist ever use the sidestepping intercepting thrust punch Lee was so famous for. Most WC techniques seem to involve a slight parry with one hand and a simultaneous strike through with the other hand.