Thought of the day

[Goju_boi]

what about kyokushin karate,it's a tma,and they train hard with full contact sparring.

[White Warlock]

Well, the idea behind 'tma' is sort of skewed. I believe many people confuse 'traditional' with Asian, when it actually refers to the original state of a particular system that is hundreds, or thousands, of years old.

Kyokushinkai is actually not very old, and by its approach, also not traditional. It derived concepts from shotokan and goju-ryu, as well as western boxing and Korean systems.

[Goju_boi]

Well, the idea behind 'tma' is sort of skewed. I believe many people confuse 'traditional' with Asian, when it actually refers to the original state of a particular system that is hundreds, or thousands, of years old.

Kyokushinkai is actually not very old, and by its approach, also not traditional. It derived concepts from shotokan and goju-ryu, as well as western boxing and Korean systems.

like what korean systems?

[White Warlock]

im shure that if a TMA guy trained as hard as a boxer of a MMA fighter then he would be able to use his art to fight but lets face it the average TMA guy does not train as hard as the average boxer or kickboxer.

From my experience, as soon as a TMA student is noted to train hard, he is 'assumed' to be an mma fighter... and thus gets lost in the blur of stereotyping.

There are 'plenty' of kickboxers and boxers that simply suck. Yes, there are certain styles that emphasize conditioning, but even these styles have plenty of individuals and groups that fall by the wayside. On the whole, though, those systems that are geared toward competition, or sport, have a higher degree of conditioning associated. Unfortunately, the side-effect to this, is a lower degree of emphasis on more lethal techniques/applications. Also, too much emphasis on competition and you lose sight of mind and technique refinement, with the goals bearing down on strength and body conditioning.

[Muaythaiboxer]

well the founder of kyokushinkai was a korean and he practiced a few kung-fu like systems in korea before moveing to japan and training in karate.

whail i agree that there are poor quality fighters in every art the percent of good fighters is higher in full contact MA than in light contact TMA. i do agree that there is less focus on techniques ment to be deadly but the point of sport compitition is personal growth not to kill or maim your opponent.

[White Warlock]

whail i agree that there are poor quality fighters in every art the percent of good fighters is higher in full contact MA than in light contact TMA.

How about light contact MA vs full contact TMA?

i do agree that there is less focus on techniques ment to be deadly but the point of sport compitition is personal growth not to kill or maim your opponent.

I've always thought the point of sport competition was 'to win.'

[Smitty]

Someone tell me if I'm wrong here, but weren't the point of the "TMA"s to get the fight over with and get out?

I hear all this about conditioning for endurance and such. But if you're gonna talk TMA, don't you wanna get back to the original concept?

I can see training for endurance, ect. if you're gonna do it for a sport. I can see the value of conditioning for pain tolerance and such, there's no getting around the fact that you're gonna get hit. But what's the need for endurance and you're not training for the sport? I've never been in a fight, but the ones I've seen haven't lasted 12 rounds of 3 minutes.

[Muaythaiboxer]

well to most people winning comes first and to some degree it does for me to but considering im not in ranked fights yer i would rather have a hard fight and lose and learn something than have an easey fight and not get any thing out of it.

sry if i dident clairify better in my post i consider any style that does full contact to have a better chance of success than any style that does light contact.

[KempoTiger]

Someone tell me if I'm wrong here, but weren't the point of the "TMA"s to get the fight over with and get out?

Well that's what it comes down to. Another instructor I know of what I'll refer to as an unnamed TMA school said that 9/10 students there will be able to sufficiently defend themselves from the average joe/thug/idiot, and will most likely handle that attacker with ease.

BUT...in the case one does come across a "trained" fighter, the tables are now suddenly turned assuming the TMA student hasn't trained heavily at all in regards to endurance, or techniques to counter other fighting styles.

Get in and out is a great theory that we must all keep in mind, but when you come across that guy that won't let you just walk right through him, and instead does the same thing back to you only with power and aggression, you're gonna be in a whole world of trouble. (I'm not referring to you in particular Smitty, just people in general....already been yelled at twice on here for apparant "inflammatory remarks" )

[White Warlock]

KempoTiger is correct. Inexperienced fighters can take a very long time to end a fight. An experienced fighter fighting an inexperienced fighter, can end the fight quickly. An experienced fighter fighting an experienced fighter, can take a very long time to end a fight.

In conflict, there are no guarantees, so endurance-building isn't such a bad thing... if your opponent ends up being 'close' to your skill level. It can give you the extra edge you need to win the confrontation.

But, just to clear things up here... conditioning isn't merely about endurance. Conditioning is about learning how to take a punch (and not flinch), how to deliver a punch (and not flinch), how to handle the 'chaos' associated with a confrontation (because things in real life aren't so picture-perfect as practice sessions would have you believe), etc. It's about conditioning yourself so that you 'can' deal with an actual confrontation, rather than merely 'go through the motions.'

sry if i dident clairify better in my post i consider any style that does full contact to have a better chance of success than any style that does light contact.

s'okay mtb, i knew what you meant. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/White_Warlock/www_MyEmoticons_com__wink.gif