Thought of the day

[Sauzin]

1) There are exceptions to such statements.

-Please keep this in mind. There can be huge differences in arts. Not just the way we train but what we train. I know it may seem like we're all the same because there are so many Mcdojo's out there it's hard to see the ones training in effective methods for all the ones offering reassuring belts to the masses.

Truth be told, most people aren't born fighters. Even rarer then this are people born to find real arts and practice them with the dedication they require. But these people do exist. The problem with finding them in bars and street fights where you can see them work in the real world is that the same dedication and discipline required to refine an art breeds the personal refinement that leads to the avoidance of these situations and places.

Don't get me wrong. Boxing works. Practicing fighting by beating the crud out of yourself and others with gloves or whatever teaches certain things very quickly. But there are things you won't ever learn this way. Things that work. Things that separate a brawler from an artist.

[y2_sub]

My advice is to get away as fast as you can.

You know , I am sick of the get away thing . I know a lot of you would disagree with my statement , however , we train in martial arts to defend our selves , if I am to get away on each confrontation , I would train as a runner

[Muaythaiboxer]

the reason that you see alot of BB get beat up is cause the majority of BB are either from no contact TMA or mcdojos and neither of which are any good for real situations in fact they are worse than no training because at lest with no training you will flail and mabe get in some lucky hits but with mcdojo/no contact the people try stuff like high kicks and spins and get layed out by guys who just swing. and contrary to what most people believe those swings have pretty good power. the thing is you never see full contact fighters get chewed up in street fights.

[KempoTiger]

y2_sub and UseoForce, I completely understand that there are quite many exceptions to my commentary, but I was just making a point -that I think we all agree on- that far too many schools don't enforce contact or actual fighting in the dojo so their students build up a great false sense of security and end up getting mopped up on the street.

I was in no way making any jabs at any specific styles, systems, or masters. I was just making a point that Boxers/Kickboxers/Grapplers etc. train to fight (in the ring) but despite how they train with rules and most MA techniques don't have rules, that sheer power, and being used to taking a few hits gives those boxers and even untrained fighters a far greater advantage in the street.

[joe2002]

Let me ask the "If a tree falls in the woods and no ones there to here it, does it make a sound?" question. If a martial artist gets into a confrontation and comes out on top however it was accomplished does someone have to see it or does he have to brag about it in order for it to happen. I mean the person they bested isn't going to go around saying they got there butt kicked by someone (well most people don't brag about getting there butts kicked).

I'm not trying to sound as if this is always the case but I do want to bring to light that society is quick to point out when someone or something messes up but not very quick to point out when they succeed. And I think that there is more successes out there then people realize. I think that there is no way for anyone to really prove that there is an ultimate system, or an ultimate way of training. So really it's a matter of deciding whether or not what you do is enough, and if you are not happy with it then decide wethere it's your not taking your training serious, your instructor isn't doing their job, or what your doing is not prepairing you for the situations you could find yourself in.

[Muaythaiboxer]

more success? if there was more success then you would think that the TMA guys in MMA would win against guys like David Abbott who have no training and just swing.

the point is that fighting is 90% how you train and 10% what you train in. if all MA schools did full contact and regularly ran and hit the weight room then i bet you would rarely hear about MA guys getting torn up in bar fights.

[Goju_boi]

more success? if there was more success then you would think that the TMA guys in MMA would win against guys like David Abbott who have no training and just swing.

the point is that fighting is 90% how you train and 10% what you train in. if all MA schools did full contact and regularly ran and hit the weight room then i bet you would rarely hear about MA guys getting torn up in bar fights.

I think that it does haelp to lift and run,but the average joe can take someone out without doing either. I guess it really only matters for the pros that compete often.

[White Warlock]

Joe2002 has a point here gentlemen. It is the braggart in some, especially untrained thugs or amateur boxer-types (often, synonymous), to talk openly, and often, about their acts of illegal battery. Those taught well in the arts, do not brag, and thus their 'conquests' are not sung in every bar... or spirited by their buddies.

As well, it is important to remember that those who win many street fights, are 'looking' for opponents they know they can beat. Those who have built up a reputation as a street fighter, have to maintain that reputation. Thus, if they encounter someone they cannot beat, or that may cause them to lose, they don't even go there. They buddy-up, or talk it out. In most cases, they can avoid confrontation with 'well-trained' martial artists, because these types of artists... don't want to fight in the first place. The reputation of kicking people's butts in the street is the reputation of a 'thug,' a criminal. That is generally not something a martial artists wants to be identified with.

My advice is to get away as fast as you can.

You know , I am sick of the get away thing . I know a lot of you would disagree with my statement , however , we train in martial arts to defend our selves , if I am to get away on each confrontation , I would train as a runner

We train in the martial arts to 'understand' violence and conflict, as a means to better understand a fundamental characteristic of mankind, and also we study it to better grasp body mechanics and biological dynamics, not to merely as a utility to defend ourselves. But, even if such were the case, running IS a means of defense that should not be dismissed merely because one's ego has been inflated by the color of one's belt. And while maintaining honor is an important thing, choosing when and where to battle is a 'wise' thing.

One must always consider whether honor is being confused with 'pride.'

I think its down to the level of intensity and reality of training.

Not a particular style, as such.

Agreed. Conditioning.

[UseoForce]

A point that must be made:

MMA fighters train for a ring with a few rules.

Traditional MAists train with rules of ettiquete, restrictions of style, plus any rules put on their sport forms (If there is a sport form).

Bruce Lee tried to make this point repeatedly. Style sets great bounds and limitations on the fighter.

I'm not bashing traditional martial arts, but I am sick of hearing "They train for the cage." It is the traditional martial artists who are bound by rules, procedures, etc.

[Smitty]

K....

Why don't we just agree to disagree? It's how you train, not the style, it all depends, let's all get over the pride thing. If someone wants to say boxing is better, fine, let them think that. It's not worth fighting over time after time.

Ok, we don't agree. Enough is enough.