Where is the power in Wing Chun?

[KempoTiger]

I don't understand why you talk about a penetrative punch and none penetrative punch. European boxing, wing chun, shaolin, Tai Chi...whatever, penetrates when punching. It's not like they only punch on the surface. The punch doesn't stop when it hit's the skin. It keeps going. It's not only WC that penetrates when punching.

There is a big difference. Find a REAL Wing Chun or Tai Chi Master and see what the punch feels like. A regular punch penetrates as deep as the flesh goes. It hurts the muscle or the skin and thats the end of it. A "penetrating" punch sinks alot deeper than that. With minimal force you can feel the spot you're being struck being blasted and instead of getting blown backwards like a boxers punch, you'll feel it seep into every bit of the muscle tissue and may even hurt the bone.

I had a master that apparently was an expert in "Poison hand" fighting, and he had me hold a phone book to my chest. He first hit me with his arm and almost knocked me over. Then he said he was going to project his energy and "penetrate" with his punch through me, and I was again knocked almost over but this time he nearly took the wind out of me. The third hit he said he was going to penetrate and stop his strike short to project his energy into me but not through like last time. On that hit I didn't move much, but I felt the strike seem to sink in and down into me, and I immediately had a twisting upset stomach feeling. All of these strikes were seemingly using very little strength and were through the phone book rather than hitting me full contact.

[dippedappe]

There is a big difference. Find a REAL Wing Chun or Tai Chi Master and see what the punch feels like. A regular punch penetrates as deep as the flesh goes. It hurts the muscle or the skin and thats the end of it. A "penetrating" punch sinks alot deeper than that. With minimal force you can feel the spot you're being struck being blasted and instead of getting blown backwards like a boxers punch, you'll feel it seep into every bit of the muscle tissue and may even hurt the bone.

One-inch-punch and alike. We had that in Shaolin aswell. One of the student's told me that when Shifu demonstrated One-inch-punch on him, it felt like his intestines was being beaten. He could still feel it two days after. I'm not sure if he exaggerated a bit. We do not stop the punch when it hit's the muscles and skin. It keeps going. putting your shoulders, hips, stance, and overall body into it, you channel more power than if you just use your arm. And Wing Chun isn't the only style where you punch on weak points such as solar-plexus. Western Boxing does that too, among other areas. And Shaolin punch on all kinds of weak points, like neck (on different areas on the neck), jaw, eyes, solar-plexus, in fact almost all weak points on the body. When using the body to punch, you also have longer range than if you only punch with your arm.

The last Wing Tsun teacher I met was a fool. He gave me the penetration, WT punch, my dad can beatup your dad speach. He had misunderstood how punching works from other fighting styles. He also said that if you punch like other styles, you only hit on the skin and muscles. He showed what he meant too. And it only made him a bigger fool than he was before. Going strait through solar plexus with the punch, not stopping at the surface, isn't only in WC.

But I might have misunderstood you. Will you tell me in detailes why you think WC punches penetrate more than other styles please?

[Traditional-Fist]

I don't understand why you talk about a penetrative punch and none penetrative punch. European boxing, wing chun, shaolin, Tai Chi...whatever, penetrates when punching. It's not like they only punch on the surface. The punch doesn't stop when it hit's the skin. It keeps going. It's not only WC that penetrates when punching.

We are entering a complicated area here. One could write books about the subject. Now that you have mentioned Tai Chi, did you know that a master can put his palm on your heart and deliver a "blow" that would kill you. There are techniques in Wing Chun and the various Shaolin systems where a punch to the chest can rupture your heart, collapse your lungs and even penetrate to your vertebrae. This does not exist in boxing. To achieve this kind of power one will need undertake internal training for years under a real kung fu expert/sifu/master.

[viskous]

ya theres a big difference between punching with all your weight and punching with all your energy

[dippedappe]

I now know how a Wing Chun punch works. I have to say that it's A LOT different from what I'm used to from Boxing and Shaolin. It's almost like a push more than an actual punch.

Well it's a very interesting style.

[KungFuLuvva]

I now know how a Wing Chun punch works. I have to say that it's A LOT different from what I'm used to from Boxing and Shaolin. It's almost like a push more than an actual punch.

Well it's a very interesting style.

oh my lord no lol....its quite teh opposite of what your thinking. infact western boxing punches are more like pushes. when a boxer punches a hanging punching bag, it swings and sways from side to side, when you hit the bag wing chun style...it stays in place, all the pushing power is erased. instead of swaying, the bag should actually vibrate wiht intense explosive power. totally different than boxing punches, no push in it at all, the demo's u see of the one inch punch are done in a fashion so that the participant isnt harmed. theres tons of threads on this topic, research a bit around here, and u'll find some great ones.

[dippedappe]

I now know how a Wing Chun punch works. I have to say that it's A LOT different from what I'm used to from Boxing and Shaolin. It's almost like a push more than an actual punch.

Well it's a very interesting style.

oh my lord no lol....its quite teh opposite of what your thinking. infact western boxing punches are more like pushes. when a boxer punches a hanging punching bag, it swings and sways from side to side, when you hit the bag wing chun style...it stays in place, all the pushing power is erased. instead of swaying, the bag should actually vibrate wiht intense explosive power. totally different than boxing punches, no push in it at all, the demo's u see of the one inch punch are done in a fashion so that the participant isnt harmed. theres tons of threads on this topic, research a bit around here, and u'll find some great ones.

Then perhaps I wasn't using the proper word. I'm not talking about punching into a bag. I'm talking about when you "walk into" the opponent and takes his place while punching him in the upper body. That's how the WC punch is powerful right? Because if you do not punch through by walking into the opponent, but hit from the same distance as boxing without moving into the opponent, then the WC punch is fairly weak compared to boxing.

And another thing. All fistfighting styles are Boxing if I'm not mistaking. Like Chinese Boxing(Kung Fu) and Western or European Boxing.

[daedelus4]

Then perhaps I wasn't using the proper word. I'm not talking about punching into a bag. I'm talking about when you "walk into" the opponent and takes his place while punching him in the upper body. That's how the WC punch is powerful right? Because if you do not punch through by walking into the opponent, but hit from the same distance as boxing without moving into the opponent, then the WC punch is fairly weak compared to boxing.

And another thing. All fistfighting styles are Boxing if I'm not mistaking. Like Chinese Boxing(Kung Fu) and Western or European Boxing.

Kungfuluvuu, all fistfighting styles are most certainly not boxing. To give an example of western boxing and a wing chun (WC) punch specifically, boxing uses the straight jab to basically set an opponent up for a more powerful strike, usually a hook or uppercut although thats not to say that the jab isnt used otherwise however, in WC we train to use what appears to be a jab in a much different fashion. It is a penetrating strike with the power of a hook or uppercut and is generated in a much smaller amount of space. No need to wind the punch up. Both types of punches are very powerful but personally, I think the WC is more effective simply because there is no wasted movement in the physics of the punch and no power lost as a result

[dippedappe]

Kungfuluvuu, all fistfighting styles are most certainly not boxing. To give an example of western boxing and a wing chun (WC) punch specifically, boxing uses the straight jab to basically set an opponent up for a more powerful strike, usually a hook or uppercut although thats not to say that the jab isnt used otherwise however, in WC we train to use what appears to be a jab in a much different fashion. It is a penetrating strike with the power of a hook or uppercut and is generated in a much smaller amount of space. No need to wind the punch up. Both types of punches are very powerful but personally, I think the WC is more effective simply because there is no wasted movement in the physics of the punch and no power lost as a result

That hardly explains why Kung Fu isn't boxing. Just because the two styles doesn't use the same way of punching doesn't mean that both of them can't be called boxing.

I found a definition of the word boxing in Dictionary.com..."To hit with the hand or fist"... It doesn't speak of Hooks or straight punches.

In many movies like "Legend of the Drunkenmaster" they called the style "Drunkenboxing". In "Way of the Dragon" they called Kung Fu for "Chinese boxing".

[ovine king]

it's a translation thing.

in chinese, hand-work and foot-work are often considered separate things, as is other aspects of fighting and as such, have their own terms

i.e chin-na, chuan-fa, tui-fa.

boxing is merely the closest english term for chuan-fa. remember kids, don't use an english dictionary to try to find the meaning of something that is chinese; you'd often get it wrong. the same goes for films. unless you are listening and understand the film in it's original language, you are probably not getting the proper meanings/understanding.